[Andy65]

@KenMavor

In the Bright app itself, if you select the Electricity Tab at the bottom, then towards the top scroll to the left and select '30min' then you'll see your usage for each 30 minute period. You can also toggle between kWh and Cost, if the rates in the app aren't right you can change them yourself.

Unless you want to do in depth analysis I'd suggest the app rather than downloading from glowmarkt.
@geoffers

I wasn't aware that you couldn't submit meter readings if you're on the Drive tariff, do you know why that is?

[geoffers]

Originally Posted by Andy65

I wasn't aware that you couldn't submit meter readings if you're on the Drive tariff, do you know why that is?

It's because they calculate your costs based on the ½ hourly ToU slots, applying the night/daytime rates to the particular time of use.
They don't use the "total" meter readings since - how could they work out when to apply the different tariff rates if they don't know when you were using the leccy?

So that's presumably why the meter reading isn't available on the app/website.

It is for the gas however, as they use the total usage readings to calculate the bill

[Andy65]

@geoffers

Unless I'm missing something here, if you submitted a meter reading they would know to within 30 minutes when that reading was taken and could just bill up to that point couldn't they? The supplier is billing to ToU that they themselves have specified so they would know the meter readings for every 30 minute period.

Equally, they could just give you a 'Bill now' button on the website that generates a bill up to the latest 30 minute period prior to the request.

As far as I can see Next Drive is essentially E7 under a different name but with cheaper prices 🙄, the hours are fixed. Presumably the entire household is on the EV tariff during the 7 hour period, so it's no different to E7 as far as I can see.

[geoffers]

Originally Posted by Andy65

@geoffers

Unless I'm missing something here, if you submitted a meter reading they would know to within 30 minutes when that reading was taken and could just bill up to that point couldn't they? The supplier is billing to ToU that they themselves have specified so they would know the meter readings for every 30 minute period.

Equally, they could just give you a 'Bill now' button on the website that generates a bill up to the latest 30 minute period prior to the request.

As far as I can see Next Drive is essentially E7 under a different name but with cheaper prices 🙄, the hours are fixed. Presumably the entire household is on the EV tariff during the 7 hour period, so it's no different to E7 as far as I can see.

Surely with E7 they must have 2 meter registers/readings: one for the off-peak times and one for the peak times.
So they know the 2 separate values for total-kWh used for off-peak rate and total-kWh used for peak rate

With ToU they don't use the (single) total-kWh reading to calculate the bill: how can they possibly know how much of that reading was the cheap rate and how much was the peak rate.

The meter doesn't store a meter-reading "total" taken every ½hr.... It stores the actual incremental quantity of kWh used for that ½hr.

The way they then calculate the bills for the Next Drive ToU is to total the 14 ½ hourly incremental readings for the seven hours of off-peak leccy and multiply this by the cheaper tariff.

Then do the same for the 34 ½ hourly incremental readings for the seventeen hours of peak rate, multiplying this total by the daytime tariff.

The bill then shows a total kWh used for the bill period (the 2 totals above added together). The total cost calculated above for the night and day rates is then used to display an "averaged" tariff for the period

For instance my last bill was
6.381p/kWh 110.3 kWh =£7.04
23.202p/kWh 114.6 kWh =£26.58

So that equated to an "average" tariff of 14.95p for that month's 224.8kWh of electricity used, shown on the bill as

224.8kWh @ 14.95p/kWh = £33.62

The average value is different every month, depending on the proportion of nighttime/daytime electricity used

[Andy65]

Presumably then @geoffers this is one of the main reasons that you download your usage data, as it seems to be the only way to validate your bill.

I understand the ToU method of calculation and it would make more sense if Drive was similar to the offering from the tentacled supplier where prices fluctuate throughout the day, but as it stands Drive just has two fixed rate periods.

There are obviously some long term objectives at play by them billing the way that they are for this particular tariff.....

[geoffers]

Originally Posted by Andy65

Presumably then @geoffers this is one of the main reasons that you download your usage data, as it seems to be the only way to validate your bill.

You got it in one 😀

I understand the ToU method of calculation and it would make more sense if Drive was similar to the offering from the tentacled supplier where prices fluctuate throughout the day, but as it stands Drive just has two fixed rate periods

Although EOn's offering is pretty unsophisticated, it actually provides one the best tariffs in terms of number of hours and price

To give them their due - I guess they have had to bolt a new smart ToU monitoring system on to a legacy software system which was designed to handle monthly meter readings (though they claim to use Kraken).... Having worked on large mainstream legacy software maintenance I know how complex this can be!! (One comment by our IT director described it as trying to change a plane's engine whilst it was in flight)

The fortunate position that the tentacled one is in, is that their systems have been designed from the ground up to embrace future smart/green technologies

There's a very interesting interview with Greg Jackson (founder and CEO of Octopus Energy) on desert island discs where he discusses its inception and development - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001r7jj

[meldrewreborn]

@geoffers

if they have half hourly consumption data and pricing that continually varies in those slots it would be possible to to compute an energy cost for each of those periods, then add them all up and apply VAT to generate a customer bill.
quite why the need for an average cost per unit per night and peak for each day has been adopted is strange as it seems to complicate matters somewhat .

its the outcome that is important and while it delivers lower pricing for those on it the all is good. But it does mean that there is no particular advantage to timing use for a really cheap slot because all the energy consumed in that off peak period will be charged at the same rate. Or am I still misunderstanding how the billing works?

[meldrewreborn]

Looking online for next drive tariffs I’m quoted a fixed rate for off peak use - can you point me to these TOU tariffs?

[geoffers]

Originally Posted by meldrewreborn

@geoffers

if they have half hourly consumption data and pricing that continually varies in those slots it would be possible to to compute an energy cost for each of those periods, then add them all up and apply VAT to generate a customer bill....Or am I still misunderstanding how the billing works?

Correct - that's exactly what they do do 👍

I think the "averaged" tariff for monthly total is just there for informational purposes...

Although hopefully if the meter stopped responding they could then use your historical consumption patterns and maybe might "average your averages" and base the cost on meter-reading * average tariff.

Pigs might fly though 🐖🪽

[geoffers]

Originally Posted by meldrewreborn

Looking online for next drive tariffs I’m quoted a fixed rate for off peak use - can you point me to these TOU tariffs?

This is my tariff - and Yes: the off-peak rate is a fixed amount
(I stuck with V3 for the gas as it was cheaper)