[meldrewreborn]

Originally Posted by geoffers

@retrotecchie, I think you've got that the wrong way around - if you read the thread I posted from OVO it would appear that the use of EAC is where people don't have smart meters, so they look back at the historical periodic meter readings and build a picture of energy usage over time. But I guess there's always an element of doubt as they're relying on user supplied reading which may or may not be correct (only to be validated by a knock on the door when a human reader comes)

However they say with smart meters they're getting a regular, confirmed and true record of your ½ hourly (or daily) usage so can build a much more accurate picture for your FAC to base your predicted usage on

I don’t imagine that the EAC computation cares where its source data originates. The methodology used is baked in - a bit like computer systems parodied in “Little Britain”. Comments that smart meters help to bring the EAC to a “correct level” more quickly, may be true, but only marginally because of the frequency of data submission. My own experience of EAC following a substantial cut in my consumption level 27 months ago is that it still hasn’t reached a “correct level” -it’s still 10% too high, admittedly only using manual readings. Now my EAC is higher than it was those 27 months ago and it’s likely to take around 30 months to achieve a proper level. I’d love to be wrong, and will readily admit that should it happen, but I’m confident in my prediction.

As I’ve said before, my EAC also went 4 months a while back without changing on my monthly bills, and nobody ever explained that. And while I’m adept are arguing for fair treatment from suppliers , many others just accept the words of the companies, mainly to their detriment. And meter replacements continue apace.

EDIT. The EAC system is huge and central to how different parts of the electricity system functions including payments between generators and retail suppliers. That’s its prime purpose. There isn’t a major stakeholder representing consumers involved, and the regulator is pretty useless and ineffective, so I am realistic enough to to realise that it’s not going to change unless that change is imposed from above. But as retail suppliers have their own data from their relationship with their customers, I see no reason why they should use data from a suspect industry system in preference to their own verified data when dealing with customers.

[retrotecchie]

@geoffers

For the last three years, I've been submitting my monthly meter reads accurately and on time every month. My EAC (not to be confused with FAC as that's rather different) started off at around double my consumption. That I totally understand because prior to me occupying the property, the previous owners used significantly more 'leccy as they had electric hot water and heating.

Over time, the EAC reduced every few months and for the last year has been tracking at about 10% over my AAC. But as I have VDD and pay for what I use every month, it's entirely irrelevant as they don't have to calculate what a monthly Fixed DD should be.

I believe our esteemed colleague @meldrewreborn was in exactly the same boat. Regular readings, no smart meters and an EAC tracking slightly higher than his actual. Now he has new smart meters, his EAC has more than doubled.

So I stand by my comment. Variable DD removes the issue entirely, but having a smart meter installed exacerbates it. Yes, in time once the meters have been sending regular readings and the calculations have driven the EAC downwards over time, the 'guestimate' will be closer to the reality.

But its the hike in EAC following a meter change that will trigger the supplier recalculating the DD, which we have seen so many times. @meldrewreborn is a very savvy fella and has the data at his disposal to counter any DD hikes and to present the supplier with a convincing argument to leave things as they are. But customer intervention should not be necessary in any way if the EAC calculations worked as they are supposed to.

But how many punters simply accept the hikes, end up in serious credit and then have to claw the money back after the event?

[geoffers]

Originally Posted by retrotecchie

@geoffers For the last three years, I've been submitting my monthly meter reads accurately and on time every month...
Over time, the EAC reduced every few months and for the last year has been tracking at about 10% over my AAC...

Good to see we're in agreement then, since that is exactly what was suggested from that OVO explanation 👍

[WizzyWigg]

Evening @meldrewreborn This is the latest update to the app 🤔.

[meldrewreborn]

@WizzyWigg

is it accurate?

[WizzyWigg]

Originally Posted by meldrewreborn

@WizzyWigg

is it accurate?

I'd love to be able to confirm either way BUT I can't see any difference between this update and the previous version. If there are any changes they have certainly hidden them well. Then again it might be that I have a steam powered antique phone. 🌞

[Andy65]

@meldrewreborn

Looking at my last bill of Dec 21 prior to smart meters being fitted, my Elec EAC was 1670 and Gas was1019. My first smart meter bill in Jan 22 shows an Elec EAC of 2458 and 4073 for Gas.
In Feb 22 the Gas EAC dropped to 1864 and was still 1864 in October 22, so still nearly double of what it was prior to smart meters and it didn't change through the summer when my gas usage is negligible.
By October 22 the Electric EAC was 1608, so now slightly less than before the smart meters were fitted.

So whilst there's no logic for the EAC to change just because meters were changed, it appears in my case that eonnext update the Electric in line with use (albeit slowly), but Gas they don't.

My DD didn't change so there was no attempt by eonnext to use it as an excuse for a DD increase, which then begs the question why they allow the EAC to increase abnormally like they do.

Using the EAC on bills can only be seen as an attempt to confuse the customer. A simple solution would be to use EAC until a customer has been with them for 12 months, then from this point forward use the actual annual consumption.

[WizzyWigg]

This is the explanation as per the latest version of the app. Make of it what you will. 🤔

PS The new feature still not visible at the moment 😉.

[meldrewreborn]

@Andy65

i don’t think the supplier actually has a role in these EAC changes, apart from submitting reading. There is no ability to change the EAC to make it more accurate.

Your gas EAC increased 4 times over after the meter swap and I think that it’s fair to question whether these figures actually have a role in the relationship between supplier and domestic customer, if they are so notional. Why are they quoted on bills when there is no real system supporting their calculation?

I’m encouraged that the false figures didn’t affect your DD amounts, especially given the high prices at that time. Now I’ll just wait to see how they attempt to deal with my DD in the next few months.

[meldrewreborn]

Originally Posted by WizzyWigg

This is the explanation as per the latest version of the app. Make of it what you will. 🤔

PS The new feature still not visible at the moment 😉.

That tells us nothing we didn’t know before. Clearly a new supplier might be in a different position over previous consumption compared to a long term customers usage, depending on upon what historic data they have access to.

the methodology in setting a DD is basically quite simple but how each supplier does it can vary and transparency is missing - we don’t get a detailed computation just total annual costs, which then have to be back calculated to get to the core assumption of consumption.