[Andy65]

I thought I read that new EV sales had levelled off @JoeSoap and I've seen some comments that used prices were dropping markedly, which are only confirmed by what you've seen for nearly new. Those prices are bargains to be honest.

Personally, I've never been worried by the 8 year battery replacement thing. I've seen some research on Tesla which suggests that their batteries are not losing performance at the rate that was initially expected. The same applied to the Nissan Leaf although to a lesser extent, I believe Tesla has good battery management software. Even at 80% capacity there's still a use for them as city cars for years, if the public can be persuaded to buy them that is.

I don't believe they're any more a fire risk than petrol or diesel, that's just media hype but if one does catch fire then they're clearly more difficult to extinguish.

In terms of running costs, EVs may be cheaper in some circumstances, but £0 VED isn't going to last, nor is the 0 BiK.

EVs seem to share a similarity to Smart Meters, the majority don't seem to want them but those that choose to have them love them.

[retrotecchie]

@Andy65

Not a bad simile but I can tell you that there are a fair few smart meter owners that would gladly go back to traditional meters like a shot and I personally know three people who tried EVs and liked them as a car, but got shot of them as they didn't fit their needs. An early adopter of Tesla ended up buying another 'banger' purely as a backup because every time the Tesla had a problem (door handles, three display failures and a fault with the keyless entry), it needed trailering away and he'd lose it for weeks at a time. In the end, the Tesla was more hassle than it was worth so he got shot of it, and kept the banger which lasted him another three trouble free years.

I'm sure they've worked out many of the faults, but you still can't drop a Tesla off at your local garage and get it back repaired next day. And they still aren't 'right' judging by the number of recalls and the millions of vehicles involved.

If you remember the 80's, if you wanted a PC, then IBM was the only game in town. Ten years later, everyone was making PC 'clones'. Twenty years later, IBM stopped making PCs and there were a hundred different brands to choose from and you could even buy the components and build your own. I think Tesla will suffer the same fate, personally.

[JoeSoap]

Originally Posted by Andy65

I thought I read that new EV sales had levelled off @JoeSoap and I've seen some comments that used prices were dropping markedly, which are only confirmed by what you've seen for nearly new. Those prices are bargains to be honest.

Personally, I've never been worried by the 8 year battery replacement thing. I've seen some research on Tesla which suggests that their batteries are not losing performance at the rate that was initially expected. The same applied to the Nissan Leaf although to a lesser extent, I believe Tesla has good battery management software. Even at 80% capacity there's still a use for them as city cars for years, if the public can be persuaded to buy them that is.

I don't believe they're any more a fire risk than petrol or diesel, that's just media hype but if one does catch fire then they're clearly more difficult to extinguish.

In terms of running costs, EVs may be cheaper in some circumstances, but £0 VED isn't going to last, nor is the 0 BiK.

EVs seem to share a similarity to Smart Meters, the majority don't seem to want them but those that choose to have them love them.

For all the plusses and minuses I guess it's just going to come down to preference. Right now I would never buy a brand new EV and even with the second hand price collapsing I still wouldn't buy a used one. I watched a You Tube video the other day looking at the current cost of one year old EVs with 10,000 miles against the price for the same model at one year old with 10,000 miles in Feb 23. The top ten comparative drops in price were around 38-40%. How can the cost of a new EV stay where it is when you can but a year old one at such a discount? Are private customers still buying new ones?

I have smart meters but that was a choice that wasn't going to cost me anything but opened up cheaper tariffs, so financially I could only gain. I'm still sceptical of owning an EV though.

Apologies to @Lee_EONNext as this discussion wasn't the intention of his thread and he was inviting other EV owners to share their experience. Perhaps there was some inevitability in the direction the thread would take.

[geoffers]

Originally Posted by retrotecchie

...the Tesla was more hassle than it was worth so he got shot of it....

Then off course there's the "Musk" factor - I personally wouldn't go anywhere near a Tesla because of the CEO and what he represents! 🤓

[Andy65]

Don't get me wrong @retrotecchie, I'm not a Tesla fan, in fact the Model 3 is just about the ugliest thing I've ever seen on 4 wheels and like a few of us here I'm old enough to remember some of the Austins 🤣

I haven't looked at their reliability record but from what I've read most of these recalls are OTA software updates. Whatever make of car you drive someone will know of someone who's had a poor experience of the same brand, unless it's a JLR vehicle where it seems it's hard to find someone who has had a good experience.

Will Tesla flog their business like IBM did, only if the EV market plummets and their market value with it, otherwise I think they'll continue.

[Andy65]

People will still be buying new ones @JoeSoap, especially if they're in the lease/PCP loop. A couple of years ago I compared the price of a new BMW (I had no intention of buying one) on PCP and a used one on finance. This was the same model and spec, I adjusted the finance so that the buyer contribution was the same, same term etc, the used car was more expensive per month. It was higher because the interest rate was a lot higher on their used car finance and BMW were bunging a large contribution on to the new car.

It made me wonder how they ever sell used cars because we'd all go for the new one wouldn't we? Clearly sufficient people either don't work it out, can't work it out or just believe a new car is out of their range. I suspect some are put off from buying a used EV, even a year or less old, because of the perceived battery life.

[JoeSoap]

Originally Posted by Andy65

People will still be buying new ones @JoeSoap, especially if they're in the lease/PCP loop. A couple of years ago I compared the price of a new BMW (I had no intention of buying one) on PCP and a used one on finance. This was the same model and spec, I adjusted the finance so that the buyer contribution was the same, same term etc, the used car was more expensive per month. It was higher because the interest rate was a lot higher on their used car finance and BMW were bunging a large contribution on to the new car.

It made me wonder how they ever sell used cars because we'd all go for the new one wouldn't we? Clearly sufficient people either don't work it out, can't work it out or just believe a new car is out of their range. I suspect some are put off from buying a used EV, even a year or less old, because of the perceived battery life.

Leasing and PCP will have known costs to the customer based on, amongst other things, estimated future value. Actually buying a new one right now, with an eye on current used prices, would be a bit of a risk I think. There would have to be some great incentives to go for new.

[retrotecchie]

@Andy65

If you owned a Land Rover pre-JLR and TATA, your experience would have been much better. The most reliable car I have ever owned was a 1965 Series 2a 88" Land Rover. Second closest was my 1991 Peugeot 309 diesel. Almost zero 'tech' which seems to be the failure point in more modern vehicles.

[Andy65]

Originally Posted by JoeSoap

Leasing and PCP will have known costs to the customer based on, amongst other things, estimated future value. Actually buying a new one right now, with an eye on current used prices, would be a bit of a risk I think. There would have to be some great incentives to go for new.

I should have said @JoeSoap that my comparison was for petrol cars and not EVs, I meant to have stated that but I clearly didn't. There'll still be some who buy new EVs though even if there are nearly new bargains. EVs do make the headlines though like that MG that had to be brought to a stop behind a police van because the driver couldn't stop it, it was like an electric version of Herbie apparently.

[Andy65]

Originally Posted by retrotecchie

@Andy65

If you owned a Land Rover pre-JLR and TATA, your experience would have been much better. The most reliable car I have ever owned was a 1965 Series 2a 88" Land Rover. Second closest was my 1991 Peugeot 309 diesel. Almost zero 'tech' which seems to be the failure point in more modern vehicles.

I don't think the word 'tech' even existed in 1965.