[WizzyWigg]

Originally Posted by geoffers

I wonder where we would be now if we"d listened to the Luddites 🤣

In a far far better place than we are. 🌞 Nowt wrong with Luddism. 😂 Flat caps and clogs for ever. 😂 Definitely no hair shirts though, I've got sensitive skin. 😂😂😂

[geoffers]

Originally Posted by meldrewreborn

@geoffers
.. when smart meters are eventually more widespread and fully functional, time of use tariffs will be introduced which rather than the trial which offers carrots 🥕 will provide variable real time prices

Yes 👍 - I guess I'm coming to this with a rather blinkered view, since I'm on the Drive ToU tariff so have managed to get my electricity rate averaged down from 31p per kWh to 19p/kWh by scheduling other energy intensive items (oven; washing machine etc) as well as charging the hybrid EV.

So I guess this is a real example of what can be achieved with energy shifting using ToU tariffs

[retrotecchie]

@geoffers

Exactly what RTS was designed to do and has been reliably and consistently doing since the mid 70s. Smart metering was supposed to be the 'universal panacea' but it hasn't quite worked out like that and isn't likely to any time soon.

It's a great idea, in theory, but until the reliability of the system exceeds 95% and takeup reaches over 80% I think they are on a hiding to nothing.

[PeterT_EONNext]

Originally Posted by geoffers

@PeterT_EONNext

Probably more relevant than smart meters for energy saving and achieving net zero / decarbonisation is the use of smart devices to schedule your energy usage. Many smart plugs come with their own in built energy monitors and scheduling controls.

Love this! I have a few smart plugs myself for controlling things here and there around the house, I'm sure my neighbours are sick of me shouting "Alexa!" at all times throughout the day and evening. Mine don't personally have energy monitors though, at least not to my knowledge 🤔 which are you using?

[retrotecchie]

I don't use 'smart anything'. I do, however have a few remote control socket adapters for the few items I need to turn on and off regularly where it's a bit tricky to reach the socket. They use a simple handheld remote control which has an on and off button for each channel. No smart hub or Alexa needed and no shouting involved. It uses 433MHz so doesn't need any wi-fi bandwidth or adds to the 2.4GHz 'clutter' from having lots of internet connected gubbins. The battery in the remote (CR2032) lasts about two years. A set of four cost about £16.

[geoffers]

Originally Posted by PeterT_EONNext

Love this! I have a few smart plugs ... Mine don't personally have energy monitors though, at least not to my knowledge 🤔 which are you using?

Mine are TP-Link Tapo P110 - you can pick them up for about £8.99 : brilliant 👍

[geoffers]

Originally Posted by retrotecchie

@geoffers

Exactly what RTS was designed to do and has been reliably and consistently doing since the mid 70s. Smart metering was supposed to be the 'universal panacea' but it hasn't quite worked out like that and isn't likely to any time soon.

It's a great idea, in theory, but until the reliability of the system exceeds 95% and takeup reaches over 80% I think they are on a hiding to nothing.

Shame that RTS is going to die before the current generation of SMETS2 hubs 😁

When will RTS be turned off?
While Longwave radio transmission has been reliable over the years, the BBC has announced plans to migrate unique Longwave content to other broadcasting platforms. That means Longwave radio broadcasting and RTS is due to end in March 2024.

[retrotecchie]

@geoffers

The Arqiva Droitwich Long Wave Transmitter will still be providing RTS capability for at least another year yet. The infrastructure and PSK data transmission system is still needed and in use by the Environment Agency as well as the energy industry.

Yes, the cost of RTS is quite expensive, but a fraction of what the smart-metering rollout has cost.

RTS or variations thereof are becoming more common across Europe and elsewhere in the world as it has a proven track record and is the most cost effective method of energy load balancing and ripple management.

I find it quite interesting to fire up the SDR and look at the RTS transmissions across Europe. I can receive the two German transmitters here in west Wales, but likewise I used to listen to R4 Longwave when I worked in Frankfurt. Long Wave and ELF definitely has it's merits.

[geoffers]

Originally Posted by retrotecchie

@geoffers

... I used to listen to R4 Longwave when I worked in Frankfurt. Long Wave and ELF definitely has it's merits.

Yeah - the only radio station we could get sailing mid-Atlantic in the '80s was BBC World Service on longwave.

And only the stupidly rich could afford sat-nav in those days, so Loran-C RDF was widely used, utilising a longer wavelength/lower frequency.

However with progress, technology has moved on... with the proliferation of satellites, digital-technology etc etc rendering them pretty much obsolete now

[retrotecchie]

Originally Posted by geoffers

Loran-C RDF was widely used, utilising a longer wavelength/lower frequency.

And DECCA for those of us old enough to remember it.

The Loran-C transmitter at Anthorn in Cumbria is still active even though the rest of the West Europe chain had been closed down. Another example of Arqiva carrying on running a transmitter for an obsolete service. I use the Loran-C as an off-air frequency standard as it's 100kHz, controlled by an atomic clock.