[geoffers]

Originally Posted by meldrewreborn

@geoffers

the idea behind the 5th live feed is so that it can charge dedicated night storage heaters and water storage without additional time clocks. For the hot water that might not be sufficient for the whole day so a boost facility might be added. The meter registers will increment off peak for normal circuits plus the 5th terminal circuits, while day time registers will never increment for the 5th terminal circuits.

that is if it’s all working properly, which in this case is doubtful in the extreme.

Sure - the issue is whether the 2 meter "registers" are monitoring those circuits independently. So when the 5th circuit is live does the "night meter" monitor only devices on that circuit? For instance during the low rate tariff time, if say you turned the kettle on (wired on the main circuit) will the "day meter" record that or the "night meter"?

[meldrewreborn]

@geoffers

the 5th terminal concept predates smart metering, I think the fault here is in the meter and its activation of the 5th terminal feed, which is a known issue.

We agree that monitoring of the registers is the key to a definitive diagnosis.

[doverboy]

Originally Posted by Beasel

@doverboy
hello and thank you.
Supply number profile code 2
Meter time switch code 8
So for clarity, the three Supply number S boxes read 2 8 1 (not sure what the third box represents.)

Distributor ID 19 (yes, I'm in Kent.)

Next Flex variable tariff
Usage March 2024-March 2025 Day 2202kw Night 671kw

... 'Kentish man' or 'Man of Kent'? ... haha

Profile Class 2 ... good ... domestic E7
MTC 8 ... ??? ... not familiar to me but likely to be a special due to your two off-peak periods, normally they're 3 digits for those with a single off-peak period, mine is 808 for off-peak 00:00-07:00 which is correct for me living in the Eastern Region
Distributor ID 19 ... south-east region

... so to confirm ... the Supply Number top line 3 boxes show 2 8 1. It appears that E.ON Next don't break the 21 digit number into it's individual fields as shown in the diagram and don't show leading zeroes, ah well.

Next Flex ... fine ... I presume it shows a day rate and night rate.

You have shown the annual day/night usage. Do you get bills (statements) monthly? Is your latest bill still showing night rate usage? Are you able to see the usage figures on your meter, register 1 (R1 normally peak) and register 2 (R2 normally off-peak) and are they both recording?

From what you've said so far and from other cases I suspect it is to do with your expected off-peak times being 'non-standard', there sometimes seems to be an expectation by the supplier or technician that night-rate is 00:30-07:30 GMT. I haven't seen anything 'wrong' so far, it could be wrong settings for the meter registers configuration on your account ... just speculating.

Just to comment that of course your annual day/night percentage split is not reliable at the moment, if it were we'd be recommending coming off E7 and going on to single rate (or 2 readings 1 rate) tariffs.

[Beasel]

@doverboy not come across a Lady of Kent yet - I could be the first lol!

1. I don't get statements monthly, but whenever Eon decide to send them. Sometimes it's 2 days apart, sometimes it's 2 months apart or more. This makes accounting for usage very difficult.
2. My bills always show day and night usage, and I now check these against the actual meter. That's how I noticed that it's the Day meter operating when at off-peak times. There is some movement of the Night meter, but this must happen after I've given up and gone to bed at 3am (my night owl days are long over!)
3. " wrong settings for the meter registers configuration on your account" that's exactly what I think is happening. Is there any way I can check on the Smart meter what the settings are, that would prove my case.
4. Eon is exactly pushing me to move to a single tariff to get round this issue. But I suspect they have been overcharging me for years because the time settings have not been correct, and are trying to wriggle out of admitting this. Probably thousands of other users too being duped too. And now they are pushing an even more complex tariff with even more variations of peak, off peak, super off peak, which I'm sure they will milk to their own advantage. Not that I'm cynical or anything....

[geoffers]

Originally Posted by Beasel

....

1. " wrong settings for the meter registers configuration on your account" that's exactly what I think is happening. Is there any way I can check on the Smart meter what the settings are, that would prove my case.....

@Beasel - from other posts on here, the MA120B user guides are like hens' teeth. However there are some limited instructions on the web, like this one https://utilita.co.uk/downloads/user...ading_v1.0.pdf So you may be able to glean something useful from this, scrolling through various menu options/screens (I did the same on my L&G meter, photographing the individual screens for future reference)

The <Configuration> menu option looks interesting....🤔

Might be worth registering your meter with the Bright app, then you will have access to the full 13mths data from the meter (via glowmarkt.com) in CSV format - load into excel to see if the meter's 1/2 hourly readings are being used correctly in your billing.

[Beasel]

@geoffers thanks for this link. In fact I'm familiar with these options and have long been taking photos, that's how I know which meters have been moving or not moving. What I'm trying to find is how to get to the time sectors that have been programmed that govern peak/off-peak times. However, having pressed all the options, I suspect this data is locked somewhere that only Eon can access.

[Beasel]

@geoffers
"I guess this could be confirmed by checking your bill to see if the off-peak reading kWh totals use the from the reading on the "night meter" and the standard kWh reading matched the "day meter" readings."
Exactly this, the bill shows a single Day meter reading which is the value shown on the meter, and a single Night meter reading also showing what's on the meter.

[geoffers]

@Beasel - you might get some luck with Bright : this is what's picked up from my meter via the DCC (which is wrong as I'm billed from 0:00 to 07:00, but explained on my earlier post/links)

[doverboy]

Originally Posted by Beasel

@doverboy not come across a Lady of Kent yet - I could be the first lol!

1. I don't get statements monthly, but whenever Eon decide to send them. Sometimes it's 2 days apart, sometimes it's 2 months apart or more. This makes accounting for usage very difficult.
2. My bills always show day and night usage, and I now check these against the actual meter. That's how I noticed that it's the Day meter operating when at off-peak times. There is some movement of the Night meter, but this must happen after I've given up and gone to bed at 3am (my night owl days are long over!)
3. " wrong settings for the meter registers configuration on your account" that's exactly what I think is happening. Is there any way I can check on the Smart meter what the settings are, that would prove my case.
4. Eon is exactly pushing me to move to a single tariff to get round this issue. But I suspect they have been overcharging me for years because the time settings have not been correct, and are trying to wriggle out of admitting this. Probably thousands of other users too being duped too. And now they are pushing an even more complex tariff with even more variations of peak, off peak, super off peak, which I'm sure they will milk to their own advantage. Not that I'm cynical or anything....

... haha ... oh sorry we were told 'man of Kent' at school ... guess where.

1. OK
2. ah OK
3. In my case the register readings match the bill readings and the day/night metering is absolutely accurate. I have registered for half-hour reads on the website dashboard so that Time of Use billing/discounting can be applied if I opt in to any specials. The smart meter will hold several years half-hour read data as well as the register data so E.ON can either read the register data or half-hour data and apply the E7 times. Anyway the fact that your meter is peak recording at off-peak times suggests that it's configured to the wrong times, as you correctly say it is the E7 times that determine the register and rate charged whatever circuit is active.

There are account meter settings unavailable to us customers and these are not widely known. Here is a screenshot of my corrected E7 time settings sent to me by an E.ON Next energy specialist ...



... there are hundreds of these TPR codes and I presume there is a selectable dropdown list on their system.

In addition it may be worth asking for your supply settings as held by E.ON Next and those held on the National Database, another energy specialist kindly screenshot mine for me. I can show you mine if it helps.

4. Very wise to hold fire ... I've seen the new Smart tariff and it may be useful for some people, if quite expensive (certainly in my case). They would have to make sure that off-peak circuits were switching correctly.

Well @Beasel at least you now have more to discuss with energy specialists. I suspect we are of a similar vintage but it would be interesting if you could discover when the meter perhaps transitioned between Off-peak (Night) and Peak (Day) times

[Beasel]

@geoffers
" Sure - the issue is whether the 2 meter "registers" are monitoring those circuits independently. So when the 5th circuit is live does the "night meter" monitor only devices on that circuit? For instance during the low rate tariff time, if say you turned the kettle on (wired on the main circuit) will the "day meter" record that or the "night meter"?"
I had the washing machine on at off peak time (the circuit was live because the hot water cylinder light was on) and only the Day meter was registering.