@meldrewreborn Thank you, yes I believe this 5th terminal is the circuit that activates the timed appliances (ie the cylinder and any storage heaters.) The "boost tank" is controlled by a regular circuit. In April I discovered the automatic timing to the main tank is not in sync with off-peak times. I turned the main tank off, and had a timer installed on the boost tank. I set it to operate during the off-peak hours given to me by Eon, but when I checked at the meter, it was the day meter that was running - the night meter did not change.
Ofgen suggest the average % split between Day/Night on Economy 7 is 58/42. Mine is more like 79/21. Even allowing for the fact that I don't have storage heaters (in fact I have no heating at all!) this percentage seems skewed to me.
I've put this all to Eon - will see what the come back with.
...The "boost tank" is controlled by a regular circuit. ....and had a timer installed on the boost tank. I set it to operate during the off-peak hours given to me by Eon, but when I checked at the meter, it was the day meter that was running .
.
@Beasel - surely the "day meter" records electricity used on the regular circuit and the "night meter" records electricity used by the 5th terminal circuit
So if your timer/boost tank is connected to the regular circuit it will record on the day meter, even if it's set to run at the expected off peak times
@geoffers For ease of explanation, I'm calling the automatic timing controlled by Eon the "Economy 7 circuit." This is what I assume is on the 5th terminal.
Eon told me that off-peak rates are applied to ALL electrical appliances during off-peak hours, not just those connected to the "Economy 7 circuit." This means that ANY usage during off-peak hours should be recorded on the Night meter.
That is why I expect to see off-peak usage, whether generated via the terminal 5 circuit OR the main circuit, to show on the Night meter.
Hi @Beasel @geoffers ... I hope you don't mind my taking an interest.
The 5th cable is for the Auxiliary Load Control Switch (ALCS) the timing being controlled by the meter.
May I ask for some basic information from your bill?
- Your supply number's Profile Class, Meter Time Switch Code (MTC) and Distributor ID (don't give us your Meter Point Number)
- Your tariff
- Your electric kWh usage over the billing period
PS. I suspect from your expected E7 times you're either in the north-west or south-east region of England.
The meter “should” record all usage at the appropriate times to the appropriate tariff prices. Examination of the meter at set times will confirm which register increments at these set times. Overnight can be determined by taking selective readings say on the hour past 22:00 and again in the morning. My suspicion is that is that the 5th terminal is only actually live for a limited period if it is live at all. @retrotecchie has commented on this previously. I’ll try to find a link.
Current Eon Next customer, ex EDF, Zog and Symbio. Don't think dual fuel saves money and think the smart meter programme is a waste of our money. Chronologically Gifted. If I offend let me know by private message, but I’ll continue to express my opinions nonetheless.
@doverboy
hello and thank you.
Supply number profile code 2
Meter time switch code 8
So for clarity, the three Supply number S boxes read 2 8 1 (not sure what the third box represents.)
Distributor ID 19 (yes, I'm in Kent.)
Next Flex variable tariff
Usage March 2024-March 2025 Day 2202kw Night 671kw
@geoffers For ease of explanation, I'm calling the automatic timing controlled by Eon the "Economy 7 circuit." This is what I assume is on the 5th terminal.
Eon told me that off-peak rates are applied to ALL electrical appliances during off-peak hours, not just those connected to the "Economy 7 circuit." This means that ANY usage during off-peak hours should be recorded on the Night meter.
That is why I expect to see off-peak usage, whether generated via the terminal 5 circuit OR the main circuit, to show on the Night meter.
I'm not an expert, but if that were the case why would they bother to have a 5th terminal circuit: they could just have the two metering registers.
I think there must be confusion by EOn between the current situation with 4 terminal smart meters and tariffs like Drive where this is indeed the case (all electricity to the whole household is charged for at the particular Time of Use)
Surely meters with 2 rate registers meter the particular circuits and charge the cheap rate for the recorded "night" usage and the standard rate to the recorded "day" usage (if they're SMETS2 presumably they will have the capability of recording ½ hourly ToU as well if you're on Drive for instance but don't know if these "mix & match")
Maybe someone on E7 can confirm whether this is the case?
the idea behind the 5th live feed is so that it can charge dedicated night storage heaters and water storage without additional time clocks. For the hot water that might not be sufficient for the whole day so a boost facility might be added. The meter registers will increment off peak for normal circuits plus the 5th terminal circuits, while day time registers will never increment for the 5th terminal circuits.
that is if it’s all working properly, which in this case is doubtful in the extreme.
...Surely meters with 2 rate registers meter the particular circuits and charge the cheap rate for the recorded "night" usage and the standard rate to the recorded "day" usage (if they're SMETS2 presumably they will have the capability of recording ½ hourly ToU as well if you're on Drive for instance but don't know if these "mix & match") ...
@Beasel - thinking about this some more: could it be the case that they're using the 5th circuit ALCS for activating the night circuit but ignoring the totals recorded on the 2 metered day/night registers and using the ½ hourly ToU recordings for the whole house instead.
I guess this could be confirmed by checking your bill to see if the off-peak reading kWh totals use the value from the reading on the "night meter" and the standard kWh reading matched the "day meter" readings.
On ToU tariffs like Drive they add up the individual ½ hourly periods for the 7hr off-peak and the 17hr standard to give the relevant time of use readings, (plus an averaged tariff)looking like this
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