[geoffers]

Originally Posted by meldrewreborn

@geoffers

I know what the pipedream is of people in authority, but I very much doubt that the UK population will take to TOU tariffs in great numbers anytime soon, if ever.

Its the difference between theory and practice. The whole smart meter project is years behind schedule, costing a lot more than originally predicted, and while you are clearly enthusiastic for TOU tariffs, I'm guessing that for the vast majority of the population their introduction matters not one iota.

Just because there are a majority of luddites in the world who don't/can't accept change, doesn't mean that progress should be put on hold

I have a several friends who have now moved onto TOU tariffs to take advantage of cheaper electricity now they have EVs

[meldrewreborn]

@geoffers

I fully accept people are free to make their own choices. Whether one views all technological progress as good or not depends on many factors. Just because something is technically possible it doesn't make it necessarily advantageous to us as individuals. I was just speaking to an Arsenal supporter who said that the ticket for the weekend's match hadn't downloaded to the phone wallet yet, and at every game there are lots of people queuing to see stewards to gain entry. It used to be simple.

[retrotecchie]

@geoffers

You'd still pull the full dataset from the meter, including the half hourly data, but you only need the two data points.

[geoffers]

Originally Posted by retrotecchie

@geoffers

You'd still pull the full dataset from the meter, including the half hourly data, but you only need the two data points.

Sorry to keep pressing the point... but you haven't explained how you get the 2 data values (which you refer to as two data points) from a single Total Active Import vale

Are you assuming that meters have two separate Active import registers - mine certainly doesn't.

So for Next Drive you're still having to use the ½hrly data to calculate the TOU, adding up 14*½ hrs (7hrs) of kWh usage to get 1 total (data point) for the cheap rate electricity and 34*½hr (17hrs) to get the 2nd total (data point) for the daytime rate... Which is what must actually happen now 🥴

[retrotecchie]

@geoffers

The meter stores half hourly data. That is what is downloaded.

Say your E7 or Drive had off peak hours between midnight and 7am. If the meter is polled daily, then you'd only need the midnight value to determine the consumption up to midnight (on peak). When you get the 7am value, subtracting one from the other would give you the total consumption for the 7 hour period - which is all you need for billing purposes. Likewise, between 7am and midnight, you only need the start and end readings. All the other half-hourly values are utterly irrelevant. UNLESS you have a true ToU agile tariff like Octopus where the price of a unit literally changes half hourly.

[geoffers]

Originally Posted by retrotecchie

@geoffers

The meter stores half hourly data. That is what is downloaded.

Say your E7 or Drive had off peak hours between midnight and 7am. If the meter is polled daily, then you'd only need the midnight value to determine the consumption up to midnight (on peak). When you get the 7am value, subtracting one from the other would give you the total consumption for the 7 hour period - which is all you need for billing purposes. Likewise, between 7am and midnight, you only need the start and end readings. All the other half-hourly values are utterly irrelevant. UNLESS you have a true ToU agile tariff like Octopus where the price of a unit literally changes half hourly.

Where do you get the 7am value from? The meter is not an E7 meter so only has a single Active Import register, so you suggesting polling the meter twice (at midnight and at 7am)?

The half hourly value is the incremental amount of usage for each half hour (as per 5.6.4.28 of the SMETS2 spec) and not the total-import snapshot read at that point in time.

So why not just do what they do now and add up the 14 incremental values between midnight and 7am and the 34 between 7am and midnight?

Computers don't find those sort of calculations onerous or difficult🤣

[retrotecchie]

@geoffers

Ah...but those L&G, many Aclara and several other SMETS1 meters store incorrect data as I already mentioned and is the core issue of this thread. Adding the half hourly incremental values gives completely the wrong result with older meters.

Every half hourly value has a timestamp. Easy enough to spot the reading stamped 7am or midnight.

[geoffers]

Originally Posted by retrotecchie

@geoffers

Ah...but those L&G, many Aclara and several other SMETS1 meters store incorrect data as I already mentioned and is the core issue of this thread. Adding the half hourly incremental values gives completely the wrong result with older meters.

Every half hourly value has a timestamp. Easy enough to spot the reading stamped 7am or midnight.

Sorry ... I assumed we'd diverged from the central topic of this thread (relating to the old SMETS1 etc kit) which was covered and put to bed about 3 pages ago, and were just talking about general TOU calculation methodology

Originally Posted by retrotecchie

@geoffers
Every half hourly value has a timestamp. Easy enough to spot the reading stamped 7am or midnight.

Yes... but this is still an (incorrect) incremental value, not the total-import value for that time, so still not much use

[retrotecchie]

@geoffers

So you are saying that the smart meter dataset does not contain a cumulative value (I.e. Current Active Register reading) for each half hour?

Therein lies the fundamental problem.

[Gunnie47]

Originally Posted by retrotecchie

@geoffers

So you are saying that the smart meter dataset does not contain a cumulative value (I.e. Current Active Register reading) for each half hour?

Therein lies the fundamental problem.

The SMETS2 meters are able to run with many RTs (40) i have seen these can all be accessed by the energy company so they can get the TOU data.
Every 30min or even more granular than that.
Do they bother, do they want to and do they even care that the readings are inaccurate?
Lets be honest its in the energy companies interest to be out on the bills.

I have just left BG they were unable to provide the TOU data or unwilling to provide. Even though they are now legally bound to do so. Its better for them to pay a good will payment to those who spot that the are being billed at peak rare rather than night rate.
They have so been unable to provide a bill with 2 rates(5 months) on it let alone capture the correct meter data.
Seems EON are no better.

Bright and Loop and your own PV/Battery system can and does collect the data form the meter. So we can dump straight to CSV and import to Excel.

But has been said many time a car tariff is Economy 7 dual RT supply its been around for as longs as i have been alive.
Its easy and fundamental that it can be done and can. Its so simple.
BG claim that a smart meter cant do dual rates. Really

The issue is a conflict of interest, The suppliers/generators are also sellers of energy have been entrusted with reduce energy consumption and reducing bills.
I cant see anything wrong with that business model. Its perfect!

I spent hours on a chat session to BG talking a person explained in very simple terms what dual rate was. They still claimed that my bill was correct and eventually dropped the chat session after 3hours.

They were unable to understand that Units X rate = your bill and that if you had a TOU tariff you had 2 calculations at differant times of the day/night. Very funny
But they do and did understand but are paid to just fob people off and lie. How do they sleep at night.... Not with the heating on for sure....LOL

Just look at what Octopus do. Do i need to say anymore.

Knowledge is power my friend never forget this.......
Seeing the TOU data and the status of the meter would be so empowering. Would it not!

The TOU Data is yours do a GDPR request via the IOC and request it. You will soon know if they have it.

I will be doing that just as soon as i refuse the good will payment.

Get a PV system and use a little energy as possible from the grid would be my advice.