[despairingcustomer]

Target Balance according to EON is to be about in credit by a week's usage at the end of March.
Here's the tale so far:
31st March Credit £348, direct debit being charged at £264 / month
3rd May Credit £730! Direct debit reduced to £100 per month to use up the credit which was discussed and agreed with them over the phone.
...roll forward to...
20th July Credit £224, usage was £123 / month with £100 per month direct debit
Got an email today from supplier stating:
Even though you're in credit by £224.81, you're using an average of £175.28 more each month than your current Direct Debit (DD) payment covers, which means your account balance is £74.88 behind where we'd expect it to be at this time of year.
And they want me to make:
one off payment of £74.88 on a credit or debit card, and by changing your monthly DD to £275.28
This highlights that the supplier wants to me to have a balance of around £300 in the account. Which with 5.6Million customers is then about £1.5Bn of customer money in their bank account!

[retrotecchie]

@despairingcustomer

There is a simple solution if you don't agree with their calculation methods,

Switch to Variable DD where you pay your monthly bill in full every month. Work out your own average over a 12 month period, add 10% as a buffer and then pay that money every month into an interest earning account. Pay your monthly DD out of that account.

That way, you never pay a penny more than you are billed and any interest on your money is your money, not theirs.

[Mailman]

@despairingcustomer

It is very hard to determine the rights and wrongs of how Eon Next want to set the DD amounts as there is no mention in your initial post about kWh consumption. They may be right or very wrong in how they have arrived at the £ estimate for the next 12 months.

As a first step I'd suggest you do your own energy audit working out the most recent annualised advance of your kWh consumption (using accurate meter differences between 2 bills approx 1 year apart). If you don't have working smart meters or do not submit regular monthly meter reads yourself this may prove difficult. You may already know these kWh numbers but please forget about the £ figures to start with. Now compare this with the kWh EAU (Estimated Annual Usage) figures that you see on your most recent bill. These figures are what Eon Next (and most other suppliers) will be basing their DD amounts on. They may be reasonably accurate or they may be somewhat wide of your most recent annualised advance. If you wish to stay on a fixed amount DD (which is re-assessed every 6 months or maybe less) then you need to have a good handle on your kWh consumption especially if this at variance (15% higher) to the EAU numbers churned out by 'the industry' for your property. You might need to have a conversation with CS at Eon Next every 6 months or so to get a manual assessment of the DD amount set for the intermediate future as you did earlier this year?

Either that or do as myself and @retrotecchie (and others) do and provide accurate meter reads manually (or smart) and settle the bill via a Variable DD mandate some 16 or so days after the bill is raised. No interaction with CS needed re billing issues as some of us can testify to. 👍

[meldrewreborn]

@despairingcustomer

the notion that you credit should be at a particular figure is false. You direct debit should be estimated cost of 12 months consumption at current prices, plus or minus any credit/debit on the account and then divide by 12. Obviously energy companies like customers to be in credit but it’s not mandatory, and in general balances are much higher that really necessary. The best time to commence a fixed Direct Debit is in the autumn, because then accounts will usually be in debit during the peak winter months. Only returning to zero after 12 months.

[despairingcustomer]

Hi Both,

Thanks for your advice.

My aim had been to start the autumn / winter increased bills with a just a small positive balance. With a fixed DD this would drop into the red by the end of the winter with the summer/autumn months essentially paying off the debt. The main driver over usage is turning off the gas central heating!

My latest bill has Elec EAU 6142.7 kWh and gas at 28394 kWh.
Elec bill usage is 1st Jul 2023 2260.1 to 1st Jul 2024 8092.5 Smart meter reading so their EAU is about 310kWh high so about 5%
Gas bill usage is 1st July 2023 947.6 to 1st July 2024 3497.1 Smart meter reading so about 2,550 m3 which using their conversion factors is around 28,177kWh. Their EAU is about 217 too high or about 1%

Paul

[Andy65]

Hi @despairingcustomer

Although I don't know what tariff you're on or what region you're in, based upon your EAU numbers I worked out an approximate monthly payment of £290 which is close to the £275 that E.onnext have suggested in your original post.
Personally speaking I'd be happy (accepting?) with EAU's that are within 1 and 5%, although I would have expected the electric to be within 1% and gas 5% as the electricity consumption should be far more consistent.

When your usage is as high as yours and monthly payments are around the £300 mark as in your case, it doesn't take much to make your balance swing wildly.

If you had a credit balance in your account of £300 or even a bit more around August / September, I'd be happy with that because that'll likely be gone by November and you'll then be in debit and you'll slowly pay it off as you've said above. The only problem is when E.onnext do their annual account review, as a large debit balance may suggest a DD increase because they may want to claw it back quicker. It also depends on the severity of winter.

[despairingcustomer]

Here's the latest twist in EON's AD (a new term it's the opposite of artificial intelligence it's artificial dumbness).

Just had this email which said:

Even though you're in credit by £270.73, you're using an average of £30.79 more each month than your current Direct Debit (DD) payment covers, which means your account balance is £343.32 behind where we'd expect it to be at this time of year.

It's perfectly normal for your balance to go up and down - you could be in debt at the end of winter or in credit at the end of summer. But sometimes you can build up too much debt, which is when we'll ask you to make a one off payment to clear your balance and change your payment amount to cover your ongoing energy use.

What you need to do.

The quickest way to get your account back on track is with a one off payment of £343.32 on a credit or debit card, and by changing your monthly DD to £312.31. Just tap the button below to make a payment online, or give us a call and we'll help you sort it.
If you don't do this we'll change your monthly DD to £340.92, starting with your December payment. We'll also continue to review your account regularly to check your DD is set to the right amount.

and I replied:

Firstly I don’t understand how you can say that I am using more electricity & gas than I am paying for as the last couple of bills has shown an increase in the amount that my account is in CREDIT from £145.62 to £270.73. In the space of two months I have paid for £130 worth of electricity and gas that I have NOT used. You have tried this before and are under the mistaken belief that the account needs to be in credit to the tune of £100s throughout the year.

Secondly I note this paragraph “But sometimes you can build up too much debt, which is when we'll ask you to make a one off payment to clear your balance and change your payment amount to cover your ongoing energy use.” And yet you are asking me to provide a one off payment to increase the amount my account is in credit and then you ask for an increased direct debit? Again, please explain why I should be making a one off payment to put more money into your bank accounts? By the way how many of your customer accounts are in credit as of end September and what’s the total of customer funds you are holding in those credit accounts?

Thirdly, please explain the basis for your calculations as to where you expect my account to be at this time of year? You state that it’s my account balance is £343.32 behind where we'd expect it to be at this time of year ie you expect it to be £613 in credit?

I have yet to get a reply to this nonsense.

For reference I am currently paying about £281 per month direct debit ie £3372 per year. My last bill had annual consumption at a total of £3747. ie about £400 difference which is about £31 per month. which correlates to the £312 per month they're proposing but that's after I've paid £343. If I don't do that the DD will rise to £340 per month.

I really don't get why I'm expected to keep my account massively in credit.

[wizzo227]

The methodology of charging 1/12 every month of the expected annual usage is certainly going to be wrong because prices change more often than that. For me, continuous improvement efforts sometimes (not always) decrease the kWh from one year to the next, so I'm often using less than expected by the electricity bill supplier company. Unseasonal weather can decrease or increase consumption by rather a lot. My summer import is mostly below 1kWh per day.

Your monthly bill is an order of magnitude greater than my summer electricity bill, so something might be wrong. £ prices change. kWh per year electricity and cubic meters per year old gas meter units are much better for seeing what is going on. Any chance that you could difference the meter readings from now to about a year ago and adjust by 365/(days) to show kWh/year? It is likely that you have either energy overuse somewhere or a substantial bill fault, and it should save you money to find out which.

The rotton energy company who I was with before EoN had their own special method to decide how much to direct debit, which was decided by their company finances. Their special method was similar to "we need more money. direct debit the stupid customers some more", literally, and they insisted; they made pretend bill calculations, it was horrible. There is no point debating with such billers. You calculate what is fair and proper at the price advertised in advance of your using it, even if that had gone up from what we'd all prefer, and you could offer to pay them only exactly what you've used.

[meldrewreborn]

@despairingcustomer

You are absolutely correct!! Their expectations count for little - your DD should be fair and reasonable. Because the DD spreads the entire cost over a 12 month period, it would be expected that an account would be in debit through the winter months returning to zero at the end of the summer. About now is the really best time to start a 12 month DD computation.

What to do? Contact them with current readings and demand, as is your legal right , the refund of your entire balance and subsequent resetting of your DD going forward. Check too that the basis of their DD computation - the estimated annual usage - is actually close to your annual consumption. On my electricity its 10% above my real consumption - a matter I'm challenging them on.

Of course, let us know how you get on.

[meldrewreborn]

I've just concluded my joust with Customer service on my DD. I was maintaining that their use of the industry standard electricity EAC was not reasonable as it came out 10% higher than my own analysis of 2 years worth of readings. Because the difference in assessed usage only impacts part of my bill (standing charges are unaffected) the difference only amounted to £3 per month.

I ended up saying they had a choice, set the DD as they wanted, then give me a complaint deadlock letter so that I could take the matter to the energy ombudsman, or else set the DD £3 lower to a level that I considered reasonable, and I would consider the matter closed. They took the latter route, which also included a refund of my current positive credit balance.

A small victory - but you need facts to argue for the right outcome.