[Rodwhite]

Interested in views on whether energy suppliers who insist installing smart meters to replace their standard E10 meters are allowed to force customers to accept a more costly smart tariff ?

[theunknowntech]

Suppliers have discretion over the tariffs they offer as its a business decision. They're not required to support E10

[WizzyWigg]

I'm not an expert but it looks more like supply and demand. E10 seems to be a little more complex than E7. In some cases, I see charges are made for supplying and fitting E10 meters. It's like most things if there's a particular product (product in this case being a specific tariff), or brand that you want, it's finding a retailer/supplier that stocks it.

[meldrewreborn]

@WizzyWiggWhile I think you are correct, isn’t it a bit strange that smart meters are not supported for E10, but can support EV tariffs.

I wonder whether the OFGEM price cap regime has a bearing on the matter and is influencing supplier attitudes.

[WizzyWigg]

@meldrewreborn
I'm sure that OFGEM are influencing suppliers. There seems to be very few entertaining E10.

[theunknowntech]

It's probably also worth noting that E10 is a legacy tariff type that suppliers mostly seem to want to get rid of. There MAY be one or two out there who'll keep supporting it, but I cannot make promises.

Ultimately, I think you'll have to be prepared to lose E10 at some point in the future. The only tariff a supplier has to offer is a Standard Variable Tariff. Suppliers can choose to focus only on Pay Monthly, or if they want they can focus only on Prepayment/Pay As You Go, in either case an SVT must be offered. Other than that, they can do pretty much whatever they want with their tariff offerings.

[retrotecchie]

@theunknowntech

E10, along with the obsolete Heatsave and Flexiheat electric heating tariffs, were rather reliant on a rather high baseline surplus generation from the good old days where we had a large Magnox nuclear fleet and plenty of cheap energy floating about in the system for ten or more hours at a time. With Wylfa (the last Magnox power station) now in decommissioning, that excess power no longer exists so the days of E10 are long gone.

The only hardware that still facilitates E10 is either RTS based dual rate metering systems or legacy two rate meters with built in switching on a time clock. As these metering systems are all being replaced and RTS is being switched off in 2024, it will vanish. It can easily be replaced by correct configuration of TOU within smart meters, but without the overnight excess generation, there isn't the 'cheap' electricity available any more so it's all a bit moot. In my opinion, there is not much merit in E7 any more for much the same reasons.

E7 was also based on cheap overnight Magnox power, and the 'workaround' for suppliers is to give apparently cheap units for 7 hours in 'off peak' periods and then charge significantly higher prices for units consumed in on-peak times. In almost all cases, unless you entire household is asleep all day and you do everything such as cooking or heating, vacuuming, washing and such between midnight and 7am, you aren't going to gain much advantage on E7 and in many cases these days, it actually works out more expensive.

The days of the 9 to 5 and traditional patterns of energy usage are long behind us now so there needs to be a complete paradigm shift in the way we think about energy. Our 'always on' lifestyles, changing working habits and the sea change in the UK generation mix since the 90s has made 'off-peak' electricity a bit of an obsolete concept now. If anything, suppliers should be getting rid of all complex tariffs and we should all be paying a flat rate for energy 24/7.

If you want to save money on your energy, just use less. It's not rocket science!

[bombaycat]

Just wondering though with the proliferation of solar generation all over the countryside coming to a field or 3 near you soon, won't we have more power in the day and less in the night since the sun does not shine then?

Wind of course could be generating anytime of day but I wonder of the surplus could more in the daytime than the night. That might match people's usage better than the older power stations that had to be kept spinning but will we have anywhere to grow our food left?

Just musing.....

[retrotecchie]

@bombaycat

The problem with the proliferation of renewables is that the grid infrastructure hasn't kept pace. They need to spend around £83 billion, so National Grid estimate, to get us a grid capable of handling new renewable generation.

The majority of electricity consumed during the day, or 'office hours', is used by industry and commerce, with domestic loads counting for a relatively small proportion of daytime grid demand. There is much to be said for truly local generation, either at the individual premises or community scale.

[meldrewreborn]

@retrotecchie

while the cheap nuclear generation is in decline, perhaps it’s that most generation is cheap - the outlier though being gas.generation which is extremely expensive, and the so called market systems mean even the so called cheaper generators get paid only fractionally less than the gas generators. I’d hazard a guess that the gas generation happens mostly in the daytime and early evening.

there is still a logical case for E7 and E10 in my view.