Energy Shift Winter 2023/2024

  • retrotecchie's Avatar
    Level 92
    @JoeSoap

    I just try and save energy anyway. Where I live, the pattern of peak and off-peak usage is completely different from most places. Smart meters don't work here so we can't participate in DFS type schemes, but I do know (from experience) exactly when peak energy usage periods are in my local area.

    Peak usage happens between 7pm and 7am thanks to a rather large food factory just down the road. They use megawatts of energy for several of their processes on the night shift as they can't do certain things during the day. There are also three 'peaks' at 4pm, 4am and 11am because that's when several large dairy farms run their milking parlours.

    The days of most folks working 9 to 5, with shops and offices using power between those hours, then everyone getting home around 6 or so to put the telly on and make dinner are rather a thing of the past, I think. Flexible working, working from home and the gig economy have significantly changed energy usage patterns and so the old notion of 'cheap rate' between midnight and 7am is surely very much out of date now?

    Plus, when Economy 7 first became a thing, along with complex electric heating systems, we had the luxury of tens of megawatts of 'always on' baseline power from the fleet of Magnox nuclear reactors. Those days are long gone and, thanks to solar, the UK now generates nearly as much extra electricity from solar by day than nuclear used to have 'spare' at night.

    Yes, the UK Power Networks statistics still show higher usage by day compared to at night, but that is balanced by the ability to increase or decrease the generation from NOL sources such as CGCT generation. But the balance is shifting and the differential between daytime and night-time isn't what it was 20 years or more ago. Back then, apart from the fridge or freezer, everything was switched off when we went to bed. Including TV. Now with 'always on' electronics (routers, TVs, AV equipment) plus umpteen channels providing 24h continuous content and peoples working patterns being completely different, the difference between domestic peak and off-peak usage is a lot smaller than it once was. So domestic customers shifting usage by an hour or two a few times over the winter won't actually make a vast difference to the availability of electricity supply or generation.

    In 2005, domestic energy usage in the UK was around 126 terrawatt-hours per annum. For 2022 it was around 96 TWh. That's a reduction of 13%. Industrial and other uses accounted for 224TWh in 2005 and 178 TWh in 2022, or a reduction of 10.5%. So if the energy sector are adamant that we all try and save or shift our energy usage, surely they should be focussed on targeting non-domestic energy users rather than trying to appeal to the general public (or offer bribes) to shift a couple of kWh here and there?
    Last edited by retrotecchie; 26-11-23 at 15:22.
    Don't shoot me, I'm only the piano player. I DON'T work for or on behalf of EON.Next, but am willing to try and help if I can. Not on mains gas, mobile network or mains drainage. House heated almost entirely by baby dragons.
  • Mailman's Avatar
    Level 58
    @StillWaiting

    You'll see by @Actual's avatar that sums of £12.84 were achievable last year. I was just happy to do my bit to smooth out energy demand and make a few quid whilst I was about it. Things have changed for me and it may not be easy for me to do this year, so although I'll participate in as far as signing up, home life comes first.

    The most I got last year was £3.53 for an event but that happened when IDA (in day adjustment) was factored in initially by Eon Next. However by February Eon Next decided to bin IDA with the result that the last months' rewards (in March) were all comfortably less than £1 (and likely to be the same for me this winter). Certainly now not as lucrative for those that understood the system of rewards and were able to shift large amounts of electricity into the 3 hour IDA period. Not going to happen this time around although some might well be inclined to do a reverse shift i.e. shift usage into the peak time where they can on non-event days to bump the baseline figure up more. SWMBO has indicated that she wants to run the pyro setting to clean the oven so I'll be doing that on Monday circa 5pm rather than during the daytime. Other than this I'll be hard put to do any other reverse shifting throughout the winter.

    Using less energy per month is way more lucrative for me than any DFS rewards (it was last year as well) and compared to last November I am scheduled to use maybe 20kWh of electricity less this month compared to 2022. 😁
    Last edited by Mailman; 26-11-23 at 16:59.
  • JoeSoap's Avatar
    Level 91
    @retrotecchie @Mailman

    Makes me wonder if this will continue for much longer. If shifting domestic energy is just a drop in the ocean and it encourages people to use more than they usually would at peak times when it's not an event day, then it all seems a waste of time.
    I'm an Eon Next dual fuel customer with no particular expertise but have some time on my hands that I am using to try and help out a bit.
  • retrotecchie's Avatar
    Level 92
    @JoeSoap

    It is one area where I almost agree with @Actual. That energy shifting isn't actually a 'con' but is very much a complete waste of time. The target should always be general energy reduction, rather than moving it to different parts of the day.

    If we all just reduced by a couple of percent every day all year round, we stand to make a lot more in savings across the year than getting the odd quid or two here and there over winter. And that automatically makes for less demand on the grid and the associated CO2 reduction.

    It might mean one less cup of tea or coffee a day, or reading a book for an hour rather than stare at the TV just because it's on. But the pennies saved soon become pounds and no faffing around waiting for invites or links to 'events' of dubious efficacy in the global scheme of things.

    Mind you, now I've got the Woody B HETAS inspected and signed off and it's pretty much halved my oil consumption, I might even try the stovetop water otter...that will save a couple of kWh a week of electric kettle usage 👍
  • Actual's Avatar
    Level 16
    @retrotecchie

    A very insightful account.

    They don't care how much energy is used or saved as long as you don't use energy when it costs them more to produce.
  • Actual's Avatar
    Level 16
    pyro setting to clean the oven so I'll be doing that on Monday circa 5pm rather than during the daytime.

    Hey, that's my way of thinking 😄
  • WizzyWigg's Avatar
    Level 81
    @JoeSoap
    The target should always be general energy reduction, rather than moving it to different parts of the day.

    If we all just reduced by a couple of percent every day all year round, we stand to make a lot more in savings across the year than getting the odd quid or two here and there over winter. And that automatically makes for less demand on the grid and the associated CO2 reduction.

    It might mean one less cup of tea or coffee a day, or reading a book for an hour rather than stare at the TV just because it's on. But the pennies saved soon become pounds and no faffing around waiting for invites or links to 'events' of dubious efficacy in the global scheme of things.
    Now that I understand. 👍 Totally and utterly agree. Well said. 👍👴
  • JoeSoap's Avatar
    Level 91
    Now that I understand. 👍 Totally and utterly agree. Well said. 👍👴

    Yes, but the DFS is in addition to reducing general energy consumption, not instead of. I don’t need to explain what it’s about and I’m not saying it works. But the idea is a different thing to reducing consumption.
  • WizzyWigg's Avatar
    Level 81
    Yes, but the DFS is in addition to reducing general energy consumption, not instead of. I don’t need to explain what it’s about and I’m not saying it works. But the idea is a different thing to reducing consumption.
    Yep, I remember you told me off before 😂😂. But what @retrotecchie said is absolutely spot on. 🤓
  • JoeSoap's Avatar
    Level 91
    Yep, I remember you told me off before 😂😂...

    No... not a telling off... constructive criticism 😂