[Andy65]

I've disliked standing charges ever since they were introduced @retrotecchie as they are disproportionate for low users. I'm now struggling to think how I managed to squander a tenth of a cubic metre of gas in the first place.

The regulatory bodies such as Ofgem and Ofcom are nothing short of useless when it comes to the consumer. Changing the subject slightly but when inflation was at 10%, 'some' were complaining that their mobile or broadband was increasing mid contract by 14%. They weren't interested or were too ignorant to realise that when signing up they'd agreed to an annual increase of CPI plus 3.9% or whatever, and that inflation at that level would be temporary and was nothing more than a blip compared to the 70s.
As a result Ofcom insisted that telecoms providers must now tell customers how much their contract will increase in £s when they sign up. BT/EE knew this was coming so in a bid to 'look good' from a PR point of view to the complainers, announced that their broadband will increase by £5 per year and air time £3 per year. Those complainers, who let's be honest, probably couldn't even turn a calculator on, were over the moon with themselves. I though, now know that my contracts will increase by more than they ever have before, and will continue to do so. It's a good job I've got Ofcom looking after my interests!

[meldrewreborn]

@Andy65

i don’t know what charges the supplies have to pay to the network operators but I suspect it will be based on the member of customers it has in any particular area. If so each connection will cost the supplier money, and then would it be sensible to run an individual account at a loss? Because that what a tariff with nil standing charges would entail.

Even when there were tariffs with zero standing charges, the initial units were charged at a substantially higher rate to recover the missing standing charges.

Unless the way the infrastructure is radically changed, I don’t see how we can get away from standing charges. Admittedly competition between supplies can result in standing charges being eliminated - landline telecoms and mobiles spring to mind. Once competitive tariffs become available without standing charges is made available then market forces mean it becomes universal.

whether people like standing charges or not will inevitably depend on their level of consumption, but as you say they weigh more heavily on low users. The other factor is whether they are comprised of element that are really appropriate. If subsidies are paid to encourage development of solar or wind electricity generation, is it fair or reasonable for them to loaded onto standing charges or should unit rates be the fairer option.

[Andy65]

I'm not saying that the suppliers don't need to invest in infrastructure etc @meldrewreborn but the SC has become a tool to tax everyone for fund this that and the other, smart meters being the obvious one. Haven't National Grid said they need £85 billion or something, we know where that'll be coming from.

I've said this before that it it's built into the price per kWh, then there is a greater incentive for people to use less. By having a SC it lessens (in theory!) the price per kWh, so there's less incentive to save energy.

I have gas central heating, my standing charges for the last year were £94. The actual cost of the gas I used came to £55. If profanities were allowed on here I'd be using them all. If the SC was built back into the unit price, would I moan - who knows. What I do think though is that it would be a fairer system in as much as the more you use, the more you pay. To have to pay more for having a supply than you actually use seems wrong to me.
Then again, we're back to Ofgem who have dictated that the SC can be used to fund all and sundry it seems.

If you have a SC then the question is whether it's set at the right level, the only ones who'll think the current levels are right are the suppliers and Ofgem - although to be fair they'd both want it to be even higher.

[meldrewreborn]

@Andy65

your consumption of gas is extremely low for somebody using it for central heating, but the gas is still a better option for you than electric heating, and an electric heat pump would never be an efficient proposition for you.

So as things stand you have little alternative to carry on as you are, elimination of standing charges would only save you circa £110 at current prices, which for many would be in the roundings, but for others a big deal - witness the anger at removing the winter fuel allowance.

[JimL]

@Andy65 @Mailman @WizzyWigg
Point conceded - the discrepancy only occurs when 1 or both readings are "Smart" (Smart my a**) so the 3 decimal places account for the equation "error".
Now if the reading of, say 885, is actually, say, 885.333 and the units consumed are, say 1.333 (not 1.0) when the next reading is taken and the previous reading states 885 (which was actuallt 885.333) and the new reading is, say, 887 then the consumption is actually 1.666 (assuming the 887 stands as 887.000. If it's 887.440, say, then it's still more than 2 units. But, eventually, it will have to be less than the difference between the 2 readings (887.440 to 890.235, say).
I can't find a calculation which under-calculates the equation.
How the heck can anyone tell from the bill what they're using? If I was at home every day meticulously taking hourly manual meter readings to ensure Eon were using the correct figure, I'd be locked up in an institution! Yep, my sense of (poor) humour is returning.
I'm raising this with Eon to ask them (futilely, of course) to stop this nonsense.
I'm finished with this issue now. Thanks for your input, everyone concerned.

[Mailman]

Originally Posted by JimL

If I was at home every day meticulously taking hourly manual meter readings to ensure Eon were using the correct figure, I'd be locked up in an institution! Yep, my sense of (poor) humour is returning.
I'm raising this with Eon to ask them (futilely, of course) to stop this nonsense.
I'm finished with this issue now. Thanks for your input, everyone concerned.

I don't do this and no need for you to do this either. However I have recorded the exact meter reads (to 3 dp) just before midnight leading up to the day my smart meters have their scheduled automatic read. One accurate meter read for the gas and one for the electricity once a month. TBH honest I'd never checked the 'kWh calculations' performed on the bill as they coincided with my own data (using the differences between start and end read of a monthly billing cycle). Had Eon Next quoted these smart readings correct to 3dp on the bill and on the 'how we worked it out' bit there would be no confusion. It is sloppy bill presentation really rather than a plot to diddle all of the customers by a few pence. Good luck in getting Eon Next to change their bill presentation. 🍻

[Andy65]

@JimL

Just assume smart meters never existed, you or a meter reader, supplied readings using whole numbers only. Irrespective of how long you stay with a supplier your entire billing history has to be within 1m3. Smart metering is more accurate as it goes to 3 decimal places but shows one decimal place on your bill. If you see the bill I posted it is undercalculated if that what's you're referring to. Over x months or years though there 'error' will be cumulatively within 1m3 whether readings are smart, manual or a mix of both.

[geoffers]

Originally Posted by JimL

@Andy65 @Mailman @WizzyWigg
If I was at home every day meticulously taking hourly manual meter readings to ensure Eon were using the correct figure... etc

TLDR.... but if you've got a smart meter you can download your ½ hourly consumption from the meter via Bright/glowmarkt.com and load this into a spreadsheet to accurately calculate your usage costs - which is what I did to ensure that EOn were correctly billing me on the EOn Next Drive tariff 👍