[retrotecchie]

@Mailman

One assumes they use the same calculation methodology for every bill...not just the O/P's. We've not had anyone else flagging up any irregularities in the maths so far.

[Mailman]

Originally Posted by retrotecchie

@Mailman

One assumes they use the same calculation methodology for every bill...not just the O/P's. We've not had anyone else flagging up any irregularities in the maths so far.

I think I've proved that where both gas reads are smart there is no issue as I record the unrounded exact cubic meterage to 3 dp and can clearly demonstate that the calculation 'works' although bizarrely Eon Next use rounded numbers in the presentation on the bill but must use the full detail in the actual calculation.

What we really need is confirmation from the OP (or anyone else for that matter such as 'the usual suspects') of a bill kWh calculation where BOTH start and end gas reads are manual (integer values) and marked on the bill as such. 🍺

[Mailman]

@JimL

I looked back on my bills when I first started with Eon Next nearly 3 years ago. Although my meters are smart I had to submit manuals when I moved in for about 5/6 months until Eon Next were able to lift the reads seemlessly from the DCC. So these are from Nov 2021.



As you can see the reads 105 (1st Nov)and 216 (1st Dec) were submitted as integer/whole numbers and marked as 'customer reads'. I recorded these on my own personal records as the same integer values (105 and 216). On the bills they show as 105.0 and 216.0 😁

The kWh calculation for this bill stated the correct value difference ( 216 - 105 = 111m3)



Doing the same arithmetic in the 'For You' lower section tallies this time precisely because Eon Next had to use the integer values supplied by my customer readings as they had no access to the precise (3 dp) smart meter reads. For bills where either or both the readings were pulled via the DCC, Eon Next use the exact readings (taken to 3 dp) but report the precision in your bill as per manual reads i.e. 1 decimal place.

Got to say that in both cases I've now looked at the gas kWh consumption does compute correctly. I leave you with my very final thoughts. 😎

• If both reads are marked on the bill 'manual' then the 'For You' calculation in my example is correct as it appears on your bill if you re-do what you see on the bill.
• If either or both read(s) is/are 'smart' then they won't unless you use the precise meter readings (for start/end reads).

Hope we can close this one off now as my particular well is almost exhausted. 😜

🍻

[WizzyWigg]

@JimL I have to totally agree with @Mailman . My meters are smart but during 2023 were more dumb than smart, so I had to submit manual readings. This is one of many statements.

[retrotecchie]

@WizzyWigg

No gas here so I can't bring anything to the party.

[Andy65]

Originally Posted by JimL

15 Jul 2024 883.0 Smart meter reading
1 Aug 2024 884.0 Customer reading
Consumption 1.0 Units (m3)

Unit consumed (cubic metres)
× Volume correction (for temperature & pressure)
× Calorific value (energy in each m3 of gas)
÷ 3.6 (convert from joules)
For you:
1.0 × 1.02264 × 39.7† ÷ 3.6 = 11.8
(The equation - left of the = sign) has no roundings for cubic meters (1.0) and the only variant is the "†Average calorific value shown to one decimal place" - 39.7 in this instance

Now, using a calculator 1.0 × 1.02264 × 39.7† ÷ 3.6 = 11.27745 (or 11.28/11.3 to 1 dec place) NOT 11.8
Simple primary school maths and Eon are getting it wrong
PS - In order to arrive at a result of 11.8, the average calorific value would have to be 41.6 - can't round up 39.7 to 41.6

Hi @JimL

What has happened with your bill as shown above is that they always show Smart readings rounding up/down to the nearest 0.1m3. If you had checked your actual reading at the time it would have been approximately 883.043m3, but it rounds down to 883.0 on your bill. It shows a usage of 1.0m3 (again rounded down) but in the actual calculation they've used 1.043m3.

There has never been, and still isn't, any doubt in my mind that e.onnext are aren't correctly calculating bills correctly. What is wrong, and I said this when this post started two years ago, is that they only show m3 to one decimal place and round up/down. Therefore, as in your case it can look wrong, especially where you have a Smart reading because they're taken to 3 decimal places.

Below is my latest bill. I've used 0.1m3 which they say is 0.8kWh. If you do the calculation you'll see that 0.1m3 is 1.1135kWh. Therefore the 0.1m3 shown isn't right because of the rounding up/down BUT the actual usage to 3 decimal places has been used to calculate the bill.


I hope this proves to you that the actual billing is correct, what is wrong is they way that they round up/down for bill presentation purposes, and it is only for presentation purposes.

[Mailman]

@Andy65

Nicely put and much more succinct than my attempts to explain it all.

[Andy65]

@Mailman

I think it may help that I've got a bill where it looks like I've been undercharged. However, the answer is still the same as it was two years ago, the actual billing is correct it's just the way that e.onnext choose to present it to the customer. I'd bet that less than 0.5% of customers don't even check the value between the two meter readings, let alone check the conversion from m3 to kWh.

[geoffers]

Originally Posted by Andy65

Hi @JimL... what is wrong is they way that they round up/down for bill presentation purposes, and it is only for presentation purposes.

An amusing example of a rounding error:

In the early days of eBay my account got hacked - the hacker posted hundreds of fake Gucci handbags for sale and I got charged for multiple pictures being displayed, in US dollars.

The conversion to GBP was done to four decimal places costing me a few hundred quid.

Luckily eBay's algorithm spotted this fraudulent transaction and they refunded the costs before I even knew about it.

Unfortunately their conversion for the refund was only done to one decimal place leaving me a few quid out of pocket

I went through a refund claim process and they were very helpful and honest: realised their mistake and refunded me the remainder.

[retrotecchie]

@Andy65
You've been charged £8.94 for five penn'orth of gas?

Proof if ever it was needed that the SCs are criminally high. Even the VAT charges for that bill are eight times the cost of the actual energy used.

Well, paste my face with maple syrup and stick me to an anthill....🤣🤣🤣