[basin7389]

Hello all,

We are currently going through the process of buying a new build property. We have requested the removal of the smart meters in favour of a conventional device. Being a smart buildings automation engineer myself, I'm fully aware of the likely cybersecurity issues, privacy violations, and possible financial escalations that are likely to happen if we opt for a smart meter. In light of this, we don't consent to have one in our new home. The Telegraph has a good article detailing a number of our concerns.

Sadly, the developer has said they can't have a conventional meter put in because EON has signed them up to a smart meter contract only, and advised we contact them instead.

Is there any way to plan a EON engineer in to swap out the device before we take ownership of the property? Or, better yet, get a conventional meter installed straight off the bat? We are fully aware we will have to pay for this service, and are happy to do so.

Many thanks for your assistance.


[Update - see my post for how I was successful in getting this done in Feb 2023.] https://community.eonnext.com/thread...ll=1#post37822

[meldrewreborn]

@basin7389

It’s said that few if any conventional meter are available now. Older meter are I think scrapped rather than refurbished.

[theunknowntech]

I'm afraid this kind of downgrade isn't allowed, once a smart meter is in there's no going back at all. I'm afraid opt-outs are not allowed once the meter has been installed - and if you move into a property where one is already installed, you're giving automatic consent for it to remain active. The meter is property of the supplier, not the customer.

Ultimately, as @meldrewreborn mentioned there's only a very limited supply of traditional meters remaining and the vast majority of them are being retained as spares to replace faulty meters with. It's very, very unlikely a downgrade would be authorised now. As I understand it, the vast majority of removed meters get destroyed and don't get re-used, so you can't have one of those either.

Smart meters are also a lot more secure than you might think - SMETS2 has been audited by the National Cyber Security Centre and there's no real privacy risk. If you are concerned, you can have the meters set to Monthly Mode to minimise any data collection to the lowest possible level.

[basin7389]

Hi @meldrewreborn, thanks for your response, can you please let me know where you have got that info from please?

I'm keen to chase up all avenues I can.

[basin7389]

@theunknowntech I wonder why the old meters are being destroyed?

Our house builder tells us they have been in contact with EON, and they have said a swap is possible, we will need to organise it.

Are you saying that EON are lying?

Also, regarding privacy vs security, I don't consent to being surveiled in my own home, hence the privacy aspect. Furthermore, isn't one of the main rules of cyber security it's not a matter of if it will happen, but when?

The technical ability of the smart meter is also worrying to me.

I'll reach back to our builders and let them know EON seem to be telling porky pies.

Thank you.

[theunknowntech]

Old meters are often destroyed for security reasons and to help prevent fraud, but the components do get recycled responsibly. Even if a removed meter hasn't yet been destroyed, you still won't be able to get hold of it either I'm afraid. Removed meters that get booked in for destruction are retained only temporarily until the final meter reading has been verified and some other paperwork taken care of. After that, it's straight to the chop shop unless it's being recalled to the warehouse or manufacturer for some reason.

My friend Blastoise186 is a cybersecurity guy himself and he's pretty confident it's all safe. Firstly, the surveillance with a smart meter is basically non-existent in the UK. If you set it up in Monthly Mode then it only sends basic meter readings once a month and barely anything else unless there's either a firmware update currently going through, or some kind of alarm/alert is triggered such as tamper detection. They only usually speak when they're spoken to first and will only accept valid SMETS Commands, anything else gets rejected.

As for security, it's pretty tight. It's all running on a closed system that's pretty difficult to compromise - otherwise the NCSC would have picked up on it and ordered it to be fixed. There's more details at https://smartme.co.uk in case that helps.

As for what suppliers can do? Ofgem regulates ALL of that stuff. The rules surrounding remote disconnections are the same as any other kind of disconnection - and in fact pretty much all suppliers in the UK have revoked their ability to use that power for safety reasons. They will never just disconnect someone remotely because there's no way to know if you rely on your supply for something that's safety critical. Likewise, the ability to remotely switch your meter from Credit Mode to Prepayment Mode is heavily regulated and is never done without your knowledge. If it's being done due to debt collection, you'd have had tons of warnings first and a lot of chances to pay the debt off and the alternative would be that the existing traditional credit meter gets ripped out and replaced with a smart meter in Prepayment Mode anyway. For obvious reasons, switching from Prepayment Mode to Credit Mode isn't quite as strictly enforced, since that will not cause the supply to self-disconnect as a result of running out of credit.

Ultimately, you'd just be delaying the inevitable at best. There will be a time when smart meters are the ONLY type still available and as all meters have a limited service life, you'd be forced to upgrade eventually anyway. At this stage, it's quite possible that we've already passed that point of no return, since the older meters are no longer being manufactured for use in the UK.

[meldrewreborn]

All of the suppliers are under the edict of the government to install smart meters and there is zero incentive to rebel. However since the smart meter communicates via a type a mobile phone signal I suspect that you can prevent it communicating by applying some selective screening. No signal = dumb meter. The gas meter communicates via the comms unit attached to the electric meter so only one bit of shielding would be required. Probably your best solution.

[theunknowntech]

I wouldn't recommend doing that though as it's considered tampering - and you WILL trigger the anti-tamper mechanisms if you try that.

[meldrewreborn]

@theunknowntech

theory and and practice will diverge on this. Evidence here suggests it’s the customers whe take action to get their meters functioning not the supplier.

[theunknowntech]

Well, any kind of tampering would be detected anyway, whether by automatic or manual methods trying to block the signal would be identified. It's not a case if, but when. While the meter is property of the supplier, the Comms Hub remains property of DCC at all times - and they would definitely notice a comms hub randomly going offline when others nearby are still working.

Also, not all Comms Hubs work off of a mobile phone type signal. Some use a Mesh connection and others use Long-Range Radio instead. Good luck blocking that. :)