[meldrewreborn]

Originally Posted by geoffers

@DaveS - I totally agree with you with the suppliers level of service/coordination & C.S lack of understanding etc👍But unfortunately the government's push has been to get smart meters installed - not to make sure they're working 😕

To play devils advocate regarding the 4 million non-working meters: it's not necessarily the supplier's fault that they're not working. The meters themselves do function as meters (recording daily usage), but the majority of issues is with the communication which is out of the suppliers' hands (and I'm sure they must be as frustrated as their customers)

Unfortunately when the system was designed (probably 10 or 15 years ago) it was using the latest (at that time) 2g/3g mobile technology in the South of the country, and long-range Arqiva wireless network in the North . Unfortunately if you don't have a signal, or the 3g has been switched off in your area (total switch off delayed until 2033) the Comms hubs can no longer connect, so the meter reverts to "dumb" mode.

There is (should be) currently a roll-out of new future-proofed 4g/LTE comms hubs which will require replacing for everyone, which should hopefully address this problem. I have also read that where there are still 4g connection issues, they are designing a secure internet based alternative to using mobile connections, but what stage of development this is at I don't know

although not all household have gas there are more dumb gas meters than electric meters. That strongly suggests something seriously deficient in the way gas meters communicate. The fact that so many households do have functioning setups suggests to me that 2g is still delivering, otherwise the number of dumb meters would be much much higher, indeed if 3G switch off were driving things, the number of non smart meters would be climbing each successive quarter - but they’re not.

What the numbers don’t show is how many meters have been dumb for how long, that is how many have been dumb for 12 months or mode and similarly for 9, 6 or 3 months. Martin Lewis appeared before the energy select committee a couple of months back as did OFGEM. Noises were made about making improvements, including making supplier fix IHD issues outside of a 12 month guarantee.

the days of the suppliers pretending that the IHD isn’t a key part of the set up, despite Einstein and Angela Rippemoff promoting their usefulness are drawing to an end.

[DaveS]

@geoffers
My system uses storage heaters (with no separate timers) connected to the 5th terminal. My water is supplied communally to our block of 84 flats on a completely separate gas heated system.
I was making the same point about counting meters installed v: meters working. Glad you agree but can anything be done about it?
I have never been on RTS communications and I was told that my wireless connection for my smart meter was very good so the installer went ahead with it. It could still be interfered with of course, like the Post Office scandal.
I note your points about meter supply on the 5th terminal and it's coordination with the charging periods. New one to me and I will try the kettle test. Presumably the same on a standard meter which I now have.
Telecoms failure, if it occurred, was blamed on the DCC in my case but probably not accurate. Just palming me off.
No one sufficiently knowledgeable in telecoms and electrical supply ever looked at the problem so far as I am aware. Management need to employ these people.
The whole block of 84 flats is on electrical heating and not many complaints. I seem to be the unlucky one.

[DaveS]

@meldrewreborn
Thank you for the information you are giving me. Some is new to me and some confirming my suspicions. Great.
I have untimed storage heaters connected to the 5th terminal. Water is a completely separate gas fired system and is provided communally to our block of 84 flats.
What does ALCS stand for. Timing periods synchronisation?
I don't think they employ any engineers on smart meter work, only electricians and installers who do a very good job within their area of knowledge.
I have given up complaining and settled for a dumb meter. Although they have taken away the meter readings facility from my account dash board. Trying to force me to take a smart meter maybe! Or perhaps they want to make huge estimates of usage and clobber me. Recently I was asked about having a smart meter and I explained my situation. So then they offered to take me off their list which I agreed to. Maybe in a few more years' time I will have the energy to try again.

[geoffers]

Originally Posted by meldrewreborn

although not all household have gas there are more dumb gas meters than electric meters. .

That's most likely because gas meters have to connect via the HAN to the "gas proxy" in the Comms-hub, so where the gas meter is maybe in an outside cabinet and/or has HAN connection problems (or the battery has simply run out) they won't communicate, even though the ESME is communicating fine

I wonder if people who have "dumb" gas meters also have IHD connection problems? This would indicate some issue with the devices' GUID registration with the Comms hub maybe having been lost/corrupted.

[meldrewreborn]

@DaveS

Auxiliary
Load
Control
Switch

thats what I remember - it’s easier than the acronym which I tend to muddle.

[meldrewreborn]

@DaveS

if others have functioning smarts then a mesh set up could be the solution for you. These work like a network of meters passing on information until one is able to relay it properly.

i know they exist but I can’t recall anyone on the forum having this type of setup, so my knowledge is entirely theoretical.

[meldrewreborn]

@geoffers

the data released by DENZ doesn’t give reasons. Batteries losing power is my guess, so that they continue to record consumption even if they can’t send it. How long that can continue for is unknown to me, but when mine stops communication I’ll be pressing for a swift replacement rather than eventually be faced with estimated bills.

EDIT there is additionally the problem of meters not being in close proximity rendering the gas meter dumb. Batteries as supposed to last 10+ years. As I know from smoke alarms with long life batteries, they don’t ever survive for the full term and that results in replacement under guarantee, so they do eventually provide value for money!

[geoffers]

Originally Posted by meldrewreborn

@DaveS

if others have functioning smarts then a mesh set up could be the solution for you. These work like a network of meters passing on information until one is able to relay it properly.

i know they exist but I can’t recall anyone on the forum having this type of setup, so my knowledge is entirely theoretical.

I've got a buddy who's meter is on a mesh network, but presumably everyone else in the block would need to be re configured to be part of the mesh if they're not already set up that way - posted about it here https://community.eonnext.com/thread...ll=1#post58014

[DaveS]

Would the mesh work if the others are not on E.ON? Could the DCC handle that? Anyway, I had my wireless signal tested and found to be very healthy according to the first installer who came to install a smart meter. Admittedly I did not see the instrument reading that he was looking at.

[geoffers]

Originally Posted by DaveS

Would the mesh work if the others are not on E.ON? Could the DCC handle that? .

The mesh network is set up irrespective of the supplier and the DCC - it's just a grouping of local networked devices who can talk to each other, and the one with the strongest cellular signal is able to talk to the outside world via the 2g/3g network, and to share the other devices' comms.

• So as far as the DCC is concerned, it's just communicating with the meter(s) via the cellular network/WAN as per normal.
  
  • However I guess the DCC will advise the supplier on the signal strength in a particular area when the supplier installs a meter, hence customers using different suppliers would be able to be part of the same mesh. So to that extent the DCC probably know when a mesh has been installed,
• And as far as the supplier is concerned, it's just communicating with the DCC as per normal

I don't know, but can only assume that if you need to be part of a mesh network, the comms hubs would need to be configured as such at installation probably requiring a "SKU2 Cellular + Mesh" Comms Hub. Googling shows: it needs 4 or more adjacent sites to form a mesh, at least one of which must have a strong cellular signal.