[EV7]

I switched to a new ECO7 tariff about a week ago and was surprised to find that although the meter activates the night circuit, it continues to use the day metering over night. The night metering doesnt move. It means I'm being charged full rate all the time.
I didnt think this was possible!
I've raised with Eon but they dont seem to know what's happening and offering me a discount but it's impossible to decide how much.
Has anyone else found that during the night that the day meter is increasing rather than the night meter?

[DebF_EONNext]

Hey @EV7 a couple of things spring to mind for me here:

I wonder does your night rate move during the day? It could be that you have transposed reads and they are just the wrong way around.

Are you on a the Next Drive tariff? If so it could be that have a single rate meter and your meter uses your half hourly data to determine what you are using and when so this is how it works out your billing.

Does your bill show a day and a night rate and if so do both have charges or is it only your day rate that has a charge on it?

[EV7]

Unfortunately that's how it is - no transposing of readings.
At half past midnight the meter goes clonk and the night circuits turn on but the meter readings stay with day rate and increase with useage.
At half past seven it goes clonk again and the night circuits turn off.
The night rate meter stays on the value it was before the new tariff was activated - through day and night.

This half way house of turning on the night rate circuit but not the night rate meter didnt seem possible with the old meters.
With this 'smart' meter it looks something new to set wrong.

As the meter isnt now registering night rate separately to day rate no-one knows how much to charge.
Everything is on the 26p day rate meter and nothing on the 12p night rate.
No bill yet received - I was trying to sort it out before it arrives :)

No not currently on the Next Drive Tariff. I was and that is the aim. With next drive the website wouldnt display the meter readings but at least the night and day meter readings were working ok.
I thought by switching tariff to something simpler at least the website would tie up with the meter. I didnt expect the next issue - the meter would throw us this curve ball.

I'm also beginning to understand why it's called Eon Next, there seems to be something next - but let's see if we can work back through things one at a time 😉

[geoffers]

@EV7 - I don't know how these dual rate meters work (do they have some kind of timed relay which energizes circuits for night storage heaters etc), but irrespective of what the meter physically displays: if you're on the Drive tariff and have a smart meter which records usage in ½ hour increments ... these should be the values which are used by the supplier for billing purposes

My meter is only capable of displaying a single daytime rate, but the billing takes care of the "time of use" usage, based on the ½ hourly kWh readings pulled from the meter

[doverboy]

Originally Posted by EV7

Unfortunately that's how it is - no transposing of readings.
At half past midnight the meter goes clonk and the night circuits turn on but the meter readings stay with day rate and increase with useage.
At half past seven it goes clonk again and the night circuits turn off.
The night rate meter stays on the value it was before the new tariff was activated - through day and night.

This half way house of turning on the night rate circuit but not the night rate meter didnt seem possible with the old meters.
With this 'smart' meter it looks something new to set wrong.

As the meter isnt now registering night rate separately to day rate no-one knows how much to charge.
Everything is on the 26p day rate meter and nothing on the 12p night rate.
No bill yet received - I was trying to sort it out before it arrives :)

No not currently on the Next Drive Tariff. I was and that is the aim. With next drive the website wouldnt display the meter readings but at least the night and day meter readings were working ok.
I thought by switching tariff to something simpler at least the website would tie up with the meter. I didnt expect the next issue - the meter would throw us this curve ball.

I'm also beginning to understand why it's called Eon Next, there seems to be something next - but let's see if we can work back through things one at a time 😉

Hi @EV7 ...
It might be that E.ON Next have inadvertently changed your Register settings in the Account meter settings (only available to E.ON Next). Smart meters in Economy 7 mode use two registers, typically R1 is day and R2 night but some users want a single rate so their tariff will be 'two readings one rate', that appears to be your situation. Appliances will still change at the right times based on either the meter's Auxiliary Load Control Switch (ALCS) or local timers. E.ON Next can change the account settings, the DCC will then apply the meter change in 48 (work) hours so that the correct day/night rates will apply.

To determine the 'overcharge' you can register for the (Hildebrand/Glow) Bright app and download a file of raw half hour reads for a given time period using a computer, this can be viewed in a spreadsheet enabling you to tot up the usage for the period affected. This is laborious I know but an approximate figure could be calculated/estimated to provide to E.ON Next for any compensation award.

[EV7]

I dont want to get into the vagaries of systems that read every half hour and how that relates to the randomised timings of when EVs are charged or that Economy 7 meters are set to different times so they dont all switch over at the same time. Doesnt it mean there can be two half hours each day where you can be on the wrong tariff?

All thats been discovered here is that when you have a so called 'smart' Economy 7 meter when it switches to low rate the meter may still be set to read day day values as I've found. I didnt think that was possible with the old mechanical meters so am surprised that it's been allowed with the so called 'smart' meters.
It means you can be on the wrong tariff for all 7 hours at night.
Is it true of all makes of smart meters?

@doverboy - no there are not two readings at one rate
I think you mean they've set the day rate to be 26p and the night rate to 26p
It's only metering day rate and no night rate despite clonking to activate the night rate circuit

[doverboy]

Originally Posted by EV7

I dont want to get into the vagaries of systems that read every half hour and how that relates to the randomised timings of when EVs are charged or that Economy 7 meters are set to different times so they dont all switch over at the same time. Doesnt it mean there can be two half hours each day where you can be on the wrong tariff?

All thats been discovered here is that when you have a so called 'smart' Economy 7 meter when it switches to low rate the meter may still be set to read day day values as I've found. I didnt think that was possible with the old mechanical meters so am surprised that it's been allowed with the so called 'smart' meters.
It means you can be on the wrong tariff for all 7 hours at night.
Is it true of all makes of smart meters?

@doverboy - no there are not two readings at one rate
I think you mean they've set the day rate to be 26p and the night rate to 26p
It's only metering day rate and no night rate despite clonking to activate the night rate circuit

I think we may be slightly at cross purposes, which is not surprising as this is a complicated business 😶 haha.

I don't know if I understand your first paragraph, but the E7 times for a smart meter are at an exact set time, so in your case 00:30-07:30, 07:30-00:30 GMT precisely, if you've been informed about a 2 hour tolerance, it's nonsense. The smart reader doesn't know about 'day' rates and 'night' rates but about registers and switch times. The supplier (indirectly) reads the registers according to their customer account meter settings, these are used by billing according to the tariff.

I have a smart meter but I had a single rate (two readings one rate setting) for my previous non-smart meter, the supplier determines this.

Are you telling me your tariff is showing as 26p during both your day and night periods? ... where, on your meter or IHD?. What is your tariff/rates as stated in your new tariff e-mail? I am sorry but what do you mean by day or night 'metering'? I presume you haven't had a bill yet @EV7 but the supply number in a bill contains six fields giving useful information regarding your meter, the top line first is the metering or profile type, the second is the meter-time switch code, the bottom line first is the region or area code.

[EV7]

Not sure waht you mean about 2 hour tolerance - not sure where that came from but the Eco7 meters can be set to different times so they dont all switch over at once eg yours could be 00:34 and 07:34, someone elses 00:17 and 07:17.
The bill should be 26p and 12p but as the meter isnt doing night rate I'll get charged for 26p for the whole 24 hours :)

Anyway having found that it's possible to have an ECO7 'smart' meter that switches the circuit correctly but not the meters I wondered if anyone else had seen the same. Maybe they have but not realised.

[geoffers]

@EV7 are you maybe concerning yourself about something which isn't actually an issue - sounds like you have an E7 meter, which in non-smart days must have recorded day/night usage on 2 register values, and presumably the bill used to be calculated by applying the correct tariff to the specific register

However you still only have one actual electricity supply - the smart meter will record your half hourly kWh energy usage for this total supply, and this is all that EOn need when it comes to calculating the bill... they will apply the correct tariff rate for the ToU the energy was being used when producing the bill.

The rate shown on Smart Meters/IHD are irrelevant in relation to billing - they are just there for informational purposes to give users an idea of the approximate cost of energy being consumed, shown on the IHD display

All that EOn will use for billing is the half hourly usage from the meter (which can be viewed from Bright/Glowmarkt, looking like this)



They will then apply the correct ToU tariff when producing the bill, which you can validate for yourself in a Excel etc, such as this

[doverboy]

Originally Posted by EV7

Not sure waht you mean about 2 hour tolerance - not sure where that came from but the Eco7 meters can be set to different times so they dont all switch over at once eg yours could be 00:34 and 07:34, someone elses 00:17 and 07:17.
The bill should be 26p and 12p but as the meter isnt doing night rate I'll get charged for 26p for the whole 24 hours :)

Anyway having found that it's possible to have an ECO7 'smart' meter that switches the circuit correctly but not the meters I wondered if anyone else had seen the same. Maybe they have but not realised.

'2 hour tolerance' is what 'E.ON Next Smart Team' come up with from time to time ... a vague generic answer referring to UK off-peak switch times ... doesn't apply here. Actually I don't think the load balancing few minutes you mention applies to smart meters, I know it doesn't apply to me but then I don't have circuit switching.

Ah @EV7 I think I've twigged what you've been saying. The meter is not switching rate register! ... so if R1 is your day rate register it's still recording in R1 during night rate time ... dare I say it as if it's a single rate meter. If that's true it suggests a meter fault or again it could be the register configuration setting with E.ON Next.