[retrotecchie]

Originally Posted by geoffers

Or they could have used RTS, but oh dear that's being phased out next month 🤣

Most of the rest of mainland Europe use a variation of RTS for load management. Germany, France, Hungary, Romania and Poland certainly do. Rather than 'piggyback' on a soon to be obsolete Long Wave broadcast transmitter they use dedicated ripple control broadcasts. Many of the meters used in Europe are identical models to those used in the UK but instead of having cellular or mesh comms hubs, they use receivers that pick up the signals from the three pan-European teleswitch transmitters (DCF39 on 139kHz, DCF49 on 129.1kHz in Germany and HGA22 on 135.6kHz in Hungary).

New Zealand and Australia as well as several US states have all decided to go down the teleswitch road as it's proven tried and trusted and ,ultimately, cost-effective technology. Dedicated VLF transmitters solely to provide teleswitch data are a fraction of the cost of piggybacking RTS using PSK on the back of the Long Wave transmitters at Droitwich, Burghead and Westerglen.

The UK energy industry under direction of the 'powers that be' bet the farm on DCC using customer's money as the 'stake' and it's proved to be a gamble that hasn't (and likely won't) ever pay off.

[retrotecchie]

Originally Posted by geoffers

👍... Not sure - just found the 3rd ¼ 2023 government report : TLDR, so just pulled the headline stats as written

I've already done the deeper delve to save anyone else the hassle 👍

[meldrewreborn]

@retrotecchie

except at the margins electricity cannot be stored it has to be generated coincident to consumption so if you can force consumers to switch off appliances at peak times the nation might need say 2 less power stations.

Gas is stored and instantly available. It’s a commodity like oil and coal or almost all food. There’s only ever a problem if the supply chain is disrupted. There is no need for or benefit to be had from TOU tariffs for gas.

I start from the point of view that if you want something it has to be paid for. Once there is enough demand for something suppliers will attempt to provide it and effective competition between suppliers drives prices down. The domestic energy market hasn’t yet adjusted following the energy price crisis.

Regulation and social policies are the reasons for the slow recovery. The clamour for measures to alleviate problems faced by low income families is really a reflection of Government failure to ensure a minimum basic income for the population that would allow people to decide for themselves how they spend their income. Instead we have an inefficient patchwork quilt of measures which become increasingly difficult to navigate. Perhaps AI will do that better.

[meldrewreborn]

@retrotecchie

but look at all the people employed in the system, meter installers, DCC employees, supplier energy specialists, advert makers and actors. The fact that the grandiose digital backbone the DCC was visualised to provide for propelling the UK into the technological fast lane isn’t fit for purpose is a bit irrelevant because we’ve at least got something that’s incredibly secure to protect the national asset that our data bank of partial meter readings represents.

would have been better spent fixing potholes.

[WizzyWigg]

Originally Posted by meldrewreborn

@retrotecchi
...........would have been better spent fixing potholes.

Well said 👍. Too many of the blighters.

[meldrewreborn]

The last cost benefit analysis was done in 2019. Its here - and its assumptions are wildly inaccurate.

Smart Metering Implementation Programme - Cost-Benefit Analysis 2019 (publishing.service.gov.uk)

Meter data from September 2023 showing the picture at June 2023 shows



Surprise surprise The proportion of smart gas meters in traditional mode was much greater than for electricity meters.

[retrotecchie]

@meldrewreborn

If you want an interesting read, then the House Of Commons Public Accounts Committee reports into smart metering are a bit more 'realistic' than any headline statistics.

PAC Reports

An interesting paragraph states:

"The future of the Programme

The government first announced its intention to mandate suppliers to install smart meters in 2008, and energy suppliers have been rolling out smart meters since 2012.

The Programme has therefore been active for more than a decade, and although the Department has produced seven cost-benefit analyses, it has not done so since 2019."


In my view, not publishing any CBA data tends to infer that they don't want to admit that there probably isn't any good news and that costs to the consumer are significantly outweighing any alleged 'benefits'.

[meldrewreborn]

@retrotecchie

i’ve seen those reports which are disappointing because the National Audit Office investigations are timid and too accepting of failure. But since no government money is involved their terms of reference are limited.

[WizzyWigg]

This might be a good listen. "The Rest is Money" Robert Peston and Steph McGovern interviewing Greg Jackson.

"The spec is a 'decade out of date' said Greg Jackson, founder of Octopus Energy"

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-rest-is-money/id1703785141

Adds another dimension.

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/ne...smart-28528821

[geoffers]

Originally Posted by WizzyWigg

This might be a good listen. "The Rest is Money" Robert Peston and Steph McGovern interviewing Greg Jackson.

"The spec is a 'decade out of date' said Greg Jackson, founder of Octopus Energy"

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-rest-is-money/id1703785141

Adds another dimension.

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/ne...smart-28528821

Good find 👍 - his description of Octopus Agile is doing exactly what I currently do with EOn Drive 🤓 ie as well as charging the EV, run the washing machine; oven etc after midnight