EON Next Living with an Air Source Heat Pump - 2 years on

  • meldrewreborn's Avatar
    Level 90
    Hi @Mailman

    We have houses being built in our area that have solar panels (no battery) and electric car chargers (no where to get a car close enough to use them!!!) but no heat pumps. They have plenty of insulation but are being fitted with gas boilers. Crazy😠

    Such is the public antipathy towards heat pumps that a new home fitted with one would probably be less attractive to purchasers than one with a gas boiler. So the developers deliver what will sell.

    However they should at least make them heat pump ready, which would include a hot water tank - no combi boilers please.
    Current Eon Next and EDF customer, ex Zog and Symbio. Don't think dual fuel saves money and don't like smart meters. Chronologically Gifted. If I offend let me know by private message, but I’ll continue to express my opinions nonetheless.
  • retrotecchie's Avatar
    Level 91
    @meldrewreborn

    Not a hot water tank but a thermal store. In a conventional tank, the heating coil (primary circuit) heats up the larger mass of water by running lower volumes of high temperature water through the coil and transfers the heat into the stored water. A thermal store works the other way around. Lower level heat is used to store energy in the mass of water in the store. The coil is used as a secondary circuit rather than the primary. The much smaller thermal mass of water in the secondary circuit doesn't take so long to recover when you draw off DHW or heating energy.

    Heating in the store can be easily supplemented with solar thermal in favourable weather and systems are usually fitted with a low powered immersion heater powered by PV if available. The biggest difference isn't just swapping the primary and secondary circuits, but the thickness of the insulation on the store and a second outer casing. They take up a little more space than a traditional tank but are about 30% more efficient. There are a few other minor technical differences, but they are the way forward.

    Last edited by retrotecchie; 10-11-23 at 15:20.
    Don't shoot me, I'm only the piano player. I DON'T work for or on behalf of EON.Next, but am willing to try and help if I can. Not on mains gas, mobile network or mains drainage. House heated almost entirely by baby dragons.
  • meldrewreborn's Avatar
    Level 90
    @retrotecchie

    Whatever. I think the trend towards such systems is again because of the inadequacies of combi boilers to deliver enough hot water when people need it - the advertising claim of get rid of your hot water tank and open cold tank storage for a bright modern combi with limitless amounts of hot water doesn't actually deliver for many. Whether the substantial extra cost and complexity of these is merited just to get 60mm of insulation is in my view extremely dubious. Installers of Combis can I suspect an large number of return visits to fit a thermal store when users soon become disenchanted with the pup they've been sold..

    Any heat lost from a normal tank or thermal store in the autumn and winter months reduces the heating demand in the home Its a loss on paper only.. Heating water directly with mains electricity isn't financially sensible nowadays, if indeed it ever was - and most homes don't have PV.

    We're not going to agree on this.
  • Mailman's Avatar
    Level 53
    Hi @Mailman

    We have houses being built in our area that have solar panels (no battery) and electric car chargers (no where to get a car close enough to use them!!!) but no heat pumps. They have plenty of insulation but are being fitted with gas boilers. Crazy😠

    You would have thought that installing heat pumps in new houses would be a positive selling point even if it meant that the cost would be be x thousand higher. I have no doubt that there are plenty of folk out there who would be happy to pay a relatively small premium (compared to the cost of a new build without) for a greener heating solution on new builds via heat pumps even without any future legislation. I have no desire (ATM) to pull on my eco-shirt and tear my bungalow apart to retrofit if new builds, within a few hundred yards of where I live, will not be fitted with heat pumps! Ah well at least it means that we will all be in the same boat for probably at least the next 10 years unless the there is a legislative shift in what happens to existing homes already fitted with gas boilers and/or there is an economic case in going through a greener retrofit solution.
  • Mailman's Avatar
    Level 53
    Such is the public antipathy towards heat pumps that a new home fitted with one would probably be less attractive to purchasers than one with a gas boiler. So the developers deliver what will sell.

    Perhaps there are really not enough heat pump installers to deliver the sort of numbers (250,000 ish at present even more if Labour get in) that new builds currently require. Lord knows what the numbers will be for retro-fitting to existing builds. Surely if someone is willing to stump up 200-250+K for a new build (which is what I estimate they will cost in the nearby development) they would stump up for what 210-260+K ish (even 220-270) for a Heat Pump heating solution rather than a combi boiler? I'd even be tempted myself to move my from my bungalow (with combi) to the new development new bungalow (with heat pump) but no way I'll be thinking of it if the new development is going all gas combi.😔
  • retrotecchie's Avatar
    Level 91
    We're not going to agree on this.

    I completely agree that gas combis are not worth a light. System boiler and a tank or thermal store every time.

    Unless it's an oil combi with integrated thermal store. But they aren't often an easy option for city slickers or new builds of little boxes on tiny estates with next to no garden.

  • meldrewreborn's Avatar
    Level 90
    @Mailman

    there is so much negativity towards heat pumps (I make no comment on whether that is justified or not) that many would be put off buying a new build if a heat pump were fitted. Whether it’s rational or not isn’t the issue, if people don’t fancy it they will not buy it.

    when planning regulations change to make heat pumps the sole form of space and water heating people will have a choice between older properties with proper gas fired heating and the new. I can foresee it being a huge problem for builders.