[meldrewreborn]

@retrotecchie

I know you post this a lot, but where is your evidence that mobile companies switching off 3g to mobile customers is also affecting DCC communication with smart meters, when they say otherwise? We're usually as one on our dislike of smart metering, but I like to be factual in my opposition, and not rely on unsubstantiated facts. DCC say they have contracts in place on 3g for the longer term, but I've not seen anything from elsewhere that corroborates your position.

All data is out of date as soon as its collated and published, but the data I've quoted comes from end of September 2022, so it's quite recent. And if (that's a big if) the DCC has managed to enrol a lot of the final batch of SMETS1 meters (ex BG?) onto their network it could be much lower. But I think things will not improve until the performance standards that exist for missed appointments and the like are extended to having fully functioning smart metering, where such meters are installed. And I don't see that in any Government or OFGEM policies at present. So, I think the problem of Dumb smart meters is here for the long haul. If a supplier were to promote a tariff with guarantees of smart meter functionality they'd pick up a lot of customers quite quickly.

At present the suppliers promote smart metering as all singing and dancing and then row back once the kit is installed - a functioning IHD isn't necessary, after 12 months the IHD is your responsibility, we can't fix this fault it lies with DCC are common excuses. And of course, DCC on smart meters are just like Openreach on the phone networks - they have no customer facing side - they only deal with the supplier companies. All of which alienates the public.

[retrotecchie]

@meldrewreborn

The SMETS1 system was designed to operate over the GSM cellular communications network. They actually contain a SIM card that enables them to connect to the conventional mobile networks in the same way as mobile phones do. In fact, SMETS1 uses 2.5g, which is what we used to call WAP on our old Nokia phones back on the day.

Shut down 3g, and those meters can no longer phone home. Simple as that. In the northern half of the UK, the meters use a slightly different system using long range low power radio running on a system provided by Arqiva.

We had our 3g turned off in two stages in our area beginning with EE in October and followed by Vodafone in the last couple of weeks. Mrs Retro had to swap her SIM for a 4g one as her phone was a 4g capable model. I had to get a whole new phone as mine was an older 3g handset. The four or five neighbours in the village who had smart meters now have dumb meters. The local garage and shop in the next village have had their meters lose communication for the same reason. No network coverage.

This is beyond a simple (relatively) migration issue for DCC. The only way to get these meters connected again is to physically replace the comms hub hardware with a newer unit that works on 4g. But if you're going to send someone out to do that, you may as well do the swap to SMETS2.

SMETS2 meters, being newer tend to have either dual band or 4g comms. Where 4g is available they can use that. However 4g is a faster system, but more erratic coverage-wise outside of built up areas. So the Mesh system allows meter to meter communication, where one meter can pass data up the line until it finds one with 4g access which can then relay a burst of data from several meters. Likewise, DCC can then send a burst of data back, addressed to more than one meter and this data then gets passed back down the line until it reaches it's destination.

A good idea in theory, but relies on proximity of other meters within a mesh in order to work. No use in remote rural areas where the distance between adjacent meters isn't close enough.

DCC's argument is that 3g switch off is 'scheduled for 2032'. That is the OFCOM deadline for completion. However, the mobile companies are keen to do it much sooner. 3g takes more power to operate, costs far more to maintain and simply no longer carries the voice or data traffic from older phones that no longer need it. The sooner they can remove 3g kit from their masts and networks, the sooner they can upgrade the 4g and 5g infrastructure that earns them a lot more money.

Now, had they (the powers that be, OFGEM, etc.) chosen to use their own proprietary PLC standard for the UK smart metering system, as was originally proposed (and for which the company that developed the technology won a Queens Award for Industry), they'd not be in the place they are now. But hey, stable doors, horses bolting and all that.

And once again, a combination of "we'll do it this way because that's what the EU want everyone to do" and two government agencies (OFCOM and OFGEM), both under the same Department (BIES) not playing nicely or sharing any joined-up thinking with each other.

[retrotecchie]

To add, a similar issue with OFCOM and spectrum allocations happened not so long ago. Again, interference from the EU was responsible and then OFCOM made the problem worse in the interests of making some quick money for the government.

Back in the day, lots of kit started becoming radio controlled. Garage door openers, remote central locking, gate openers. Here in the UK, two frequencies were allocated for remote control and remote telemetry. 418MHz was for longer distance, higher power communication but limited to the data rate. 458MHz was lower power, shorter range but you could transmit continuously. Both of these frequencies were licence-free under the MPT1324 or MPT1340 legislation.

As engineers supplying radio control kit to the police and military, we could choose either frequency, depending on the application.

So, along come the EU, sticking their oar in where it isn't wanted, and telling us that because the rest of Europe uses just one frequency (433MHz), we had to do the same. So all licence-free remote control kit had to use 433MHz going forward, with different rules and regulations on transmitted Power, range, data rates, etc.

If you had older kit still using the older frequencies, you could legally carry on using it. You just couldn't manufacture or introduce products to market beyond 2001.

Along comes OFCOM in 2011 or so and rub their hands together in glee thinking 'ooooh....418MHz isn't used for anything anymore so let's sell off that bit of the spectrum to the highest bidder'. So they did. And then rewrote the rules on the legacy equipment without telling anyone, or checking if anything or anyone was still using legacy kit.

So here was me, in the middle of nowhere back in May, setting up a firing range in my back garden with a set of military targets that a client had 'found' in a storage depot and wondered if I could service them and get them back into use.

The handheld controller? The radio receivers in each target? 418MHz. New batteries, bit of a cleanup and me trying them out over the course of a week to see if they work properly and tweaking anything that needs it.

Imagine my delight when I get a visit from a government dogsbody, accompanied by a representative of the local Boys in Blue complaining that someone is causing interference on the local TETRA radio mast and they are trying to find out where it's coming from.

So having put my case and explained I thought I was within the rules on 'legacy equipment' I was informed that the rules had changed. No option but to remove all the 418MHz gear, and replace it with 433MHz radio gear and use it over a shorter range.

[despairingcustomer]

Possibly a nice to have but my old manual meters which I could photo the readings of have been replaced by smart meters who only display the meter readings after some kafkaesque sequence of button presses!

[meldrewreborn]

@retrotecchie

Telephonica (o2/virginmedia) signed a contract to provide coverage for 15 years from 2013 (or 2015when the rollout got fully underway) - anyway its not eneding until 2028 at the earliest and has probably been extended to 2033. So other companies shutting their 2g or 3g mobile services down is, I think, completely irrelevant. If SMETS1 meters are not working now but they did in the past, it's not because of the mobile signal or lack of it, but for some other reason.
Telefónica UK Signs £1.5bn Smart Meter Deal - Virgin Media O2

[retrotecchie]

@meldrewreborn

I think it is a combination of several things, deprecation of mobile networks being just one of many factors. Those other factors I suspect are still valid. The network issue will also have some impact on top of those factors.

I'm very much for rather than agin smart meters, but not until they have been completely rethought, developed in partnership with end users rather than just those with vested interest in the energy sector, tested to the nth degree and work 'out of the box', first time every time and continue working as advertised for their entire service life...no ifs, ands or buts. Until that day happens...I'm not having one.

I just did a callout to a neighbour who came within a gnat's whisker of burning her house down.

Long story short, problem solved but NEVER try to run a tumble drier on a rolled-up 10A extension lead.

Her meter is a big old square block with number wheels and a spinning disk. Absolutely bombproof and still working after 30-odd years. Why fix it if it ain't broke?!