[Mailman]

I make no comment other than to note today's derisible amount of renewables and storage and our reliance on energy from our European friends via the Interconnectors and without them gas CCGT plants churning out nearly 24GW we would be suffering power cuts all over the UK right now.

Not to worry though as NESO has released the Clean Power 30 document for what might lie ahead that ....well I'll let you judge for yourselves.

I also came across an interesting (for some) document relating to Offshore wind vessels availability until 2030.

Looks like these vessels (namely the WTIVs (Wind Turbine Installation Vessels) and the FIVs (Foundation Installion Vessels) needed to install all the offshore turbines needed may be in short supply from 2025 onwards (see page 41 figure 20). I do hope DESNZ has booked them boats ahead of the next ARx CfD rounds. 🤔

It certainly looks like onshore, solar and storage is likely to proceed at at even greater pace if the grid is going to produce clean power by 2030 if Offshore proves to be difficult to source that power. Whether if Net Zero on the Grid by 2030 actually proves to be both cheaper and more reliable (i.e. no power cuts) remains to be seen. Again I make no comment.

Enjoy the reading. 👍

[DebF_EONNext]

I have only just come across this @Mailman it makes for an interesting read!

Let me tag @Nigel_EONNext so he sees this when he's back from holiday as I think this would be right up his street 🍃

[meldrewreborn]

@DebF_EONNext

We already know that the problem with renewable energy generation is that it can be quite variable. When the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing we rely on gas generation to fill the gap. Because our need for gas generation is quite intermittent, those plants may only operate for a few hours per day - some will run longer than others. But having the plant available at all incurs fixed costs which have to be paid for. And the problem is worse in the winter because the days are shorter, solar production is reduced, sometimes the wind is negligible and we want to heat our homes. At present the majority of homes use Gas for heating, but just imagine if we're switched to heat pumps run on electricity. And this is the utopia we're being sold - does it remind anyone of the tale of the Emperor's new clothes?

The irony is that more renewable generation also means that our need for gas generating backup will need to increase too - perhaps in equal amounts of generating capacity.

I've struggled to understand how Mr Miliband's claim that he's trying to eliminate costly gas generation from our supplies can possibly be delivered.

And I think the Public Accounts Committee should look at exactly why our electricity prices are so high and a breakdown of where our payments actually go - I've heard that a significant amount of the wholesale cost goes on paying a government carbon tax. Perhaps somebody can confirm or deny. But if its true then not content with applying 5% VAT, the Government takes money from our bills in other ways.

[DebF_EONNext]

I agree with you that renewables are variable and balancing demand will no doubt be tricky but if you think of countries like Iceland, Norway and even Costa Rica who are almost 100% renewable then I think that's it's entirely possible.

We do still need to rely on alternatives like gas FOR NOW but eventually I believe in time we will be less and less. There's already been days where the UK has run on almost only renewable energy which we couldn't have imagined even 20 years ago never mind 50 years ago! These things take time but I think it's possible and we will get there, there's no reason not to 🤞

Have a read of Scottish Renewables Energy Facts & Statistics if you get a chance - Did you know that in 2020 Scotland's renewable resources generated the equivalent of 97% of Scotland's energy consumption! This is a MASSIVE amount and it's going up each year, if we can do this in Scotland imagine what can be achieved utilising all of the natural resources across the UK as a whole. I do personally think offshore is the way to go on a larger scale 😊

[rwh202]

Originally Posted by DebF_EONNext

I agree with you that renewables are variable and balancing demand will no doubt be tricky but if you think of countries like Iceland, Norway and even Costa Rica who are almost 100% renewable then I think that's it's entirely possible

Big difference with those examples is they are mainly hydro and geothermal - a lot more consistent than solar and wind (especially in the UK!)
If we want to get rid of the gas backstop we are going to need massive investment in energy storage and we just aren’t there yet.

[geoffers]

Originally Posted by rwh202

...If we want to get rid of the gas backstop we are going to need massive investment in energy storage and we just aren’t there yet...

One thing I find difficult to understand is the debate on "brown" energy, where customers store cheaper-rate energy in their own batteries (which have been paid for out of their own hard-earned cash) then sell it back to the grid at a higher-rate.

Maybe I'm being very naïve in thinking this.. but surely this incentivises individuals to invest in their own battery storage and provides some return on their investment.

But more importantly this provides an extra free storage resource before any further infrastructure investment is required. Also add to this the potential for incorporating EV batteries using V2X solutions (where X can be Grid; Home or Load ie specific devices)

I expect the figures don't add up, with individual storage being insignificant compared to the total energy storage requirements.

[DebF_EONNext]

@rwh202 that's why I think offshore is the way to go we need to harness the power of the tides! Do you not think that tech is catching up though? I agree we aren't there yet but look how far we have come with things like battery storage and inter connectors etc there's lot's happening - just waiting for fusion ⚡

[rwh202]

Originally Posted by DebF_EONNext

@rwh202 that's why I think offshore is the way to go we need to harness the power of the tides! Do you not think that tech is catching up though? I agree we aren't there yet but look how far we have come with things like battery storage and inter connectors etc there's lot's happening - just waiting for fusion ⚡

Yes, batteries will play a part, but the scale is astronomical - you’d need enough capacity to power the country for a week.
I think fusion will come before tidal. It’s easier for sure!
Fusion is one of those things that will be so revolutionary, it’s ridiculous we haven’t gone ‘all in’ on it. Think Manhatten Project level on steroids. When it comes, messing around with windmills and batteries will have just been a distraction.

[meldrewreborn]

@rwh202

what’s you opinion on gas powered heat pumps?
they would cost less to run than electric ones, not require additional electric generating capacity and distribution infrastructure, while also cutting emissions by 75%.

[rwh202]

Originally Posted by meldrewreborn

@rwh202

what’s you opinion on gas powered heat pumps?
they would cost less to run than electric ones, not require additional electric generating capacity and distribution infrastructure, while also cutting emissions by 75%.

To be honest, had no idea they existed. I guess they never took off because gas has been historically cheap, the units are expensive, complicated and still require the same upgrade / upheaval as electric ones. Also that 75% reduction - where does that come from - I've not come across much in the way of figures, but they seem to have a COP significantly worse than electric.
Part of the push to electric heat pumps is the ability to completely remove gas supplies - saving billions in maintaining decrepit infrastructure (so we can spend billions on improving decrepit electrical infrastructure...).
The way I tend to compare competing technologies is imagine neither existed, then if presented both in Dragons Den, which would you pick?