[wizzo227]

This outsider opinion is unofficial. Don't buy Economy 7.

1979 was the year of peak coal fired power generation in the UK, at numerous huge coal power stations. My local one at Didcot had railway sidings and a half square mile dedicated to the coal heap. The furnaces of these were so big that they took too long to cool down and warm up, so uses for night time baseload had to be found. The Belgians put streetlights everywhere; even motorways in the middle of the countryside. Britain mobilised the storage heater sales reps, and pushed unsuspecting customers towards 'Economy 7'. All to use up night time electricity, from power stations too big to switch off.

Fast forward 40+ years, and most of the coal heaps have gone. Rows of jet engine sized combined cycle gas turbine generators need quite a few minutes to spin up, but not days. The requirement for night time storage heaters is (unofficial; only me saying this) long gone. Economy 7, same hours every night always cheap, is (unofficially) not really what is needed. If it is not really needed then the sales reps won't try at all to get the best deals for you.

"smart" meters on SMETS2 record and transmit 48 metering periods per day in half hour intervals. Optionally, customers with SMETS2 smart meters may select a utility bill provider whose 'agile' tariff bills a different price in half hour intervals. An example of that price, over the first week or so of September 2023 is pictured. Night time is not the only cheapest time because there was often a solar generation boost around mid-day. Hence Economy7 is no longer the best option to find cheaper electricity.

[JoeSoap]

@wizzo227

Interesting insight. I'm not really sure if anyone buys E7 as something new now or if it's just those customers who already have it that seek new E7 tariffs. I'm pretty sure those that want or need this type of tariff will be doing what most of us do and try to find the solution that benefits their pocket.

[DaftBob]

@wizzo227 A bit behind the times and maybe part of Eons drive to avoid Economy 7 . Most of the old storage heaters may be gone. We are now into Battery Banks Sand Banks 24hr living and the need to reduce consumption. All due to fake energy pricing and standing charges

[Indyk_EONNext]

Just came across your post! @wizzo227

Thank you for sharing, quite an interesting one. 😊

[PhilTUK]

Aren't we now in the same boat (no pun intended) with offshore wind, at least when the wind blows. The nighttime demand is trending towards the wind generation leaving a gap for nuclear (and Drax)

[meldrewreborn]

@wizzo227

E7 to supply night storage heaters was entirely sensible and rational at the time. Storage heaters did then what batteries do now - store energy at night and release it by day, although primarily through the winter months. It wasn’t only coal that produced oodles of night time electricity, nuclear does too and now so does wind.

Modern storage radiators are thermostatically controlled and less likely to overheat rooms when the weather turns less cold - they still have a role to play. But E7 pricing seems to me to be a bit obscure and quite varied in the different regions. But if a customer doesn’t have mains gas and no room for an oil tank, E7 and storage radiators can still be a viable option.

[geoffers]

@meldrewreborn - Interesting how @DaftBob mentioned Sand Batteries earlier in this thread

Originally Posted by DaftBob

... We are now into Battery Banks Sand Banks 24hr living and the need to reduce consumption...

When I first saw them described a couple of years ago on the BBC news I though “what a simple idea – surprised no one has done this before” https://www.bbc.co.uk/future/article...m-clean-energy

Then recently this thread popped up

Originally Posted by marktom

... I have a GEC Nightstor elec boiler ...etc

A bit of Googling shows these units (now discontinued) have been around in excess of 25 years. They have a central boiler claimed to be 98% efficient, which retains heat long term and distributes this via a heat exchanger through normal c/h radiators.

The boiler has a “Feolite” core which apparently is capable of retaining heat up to 1000⁰C – extremely unlikely in practice, but certainly uses a high core temperature. So similar to the "sand battery" concept

[meldrewreborn]

@geoffers

I recall somebody in Canada who used a very large underground insulated tank to store hot water from his thermal panels, for use later.

As you alll know I have a gas boiler. Despite mad Ed claiming it’s the high price of gas that is responsible for high electricity prices, consumers find standard unit prices of gas between 20 and 25% of electricity units.

I know that it’s the highest price of electricity sold to the grid that sets the wholesale price, but little attention is paid to the excess income paid to all the other generators. I suspect that a good portion of this goes back to the Government, and thus provides a powerful incentive not to reform the system to lower electricity prices.

the you have the warm home discount - Government trumpets the benefit to those who get this but are quiet about those whose standing charges increase yet again. They lose out and even those who benefitted under the previous scheme lose out as they pay extra standing charges this time but get no additional benefit. The Government takes credit and loves the fact that these benefits, which are in effect social security benefits don’t need them to raise taxes to pay for them.

[marktom]

Originally Posted by geoffers

@meldrewreborn - Interesting how @DaftBob mentioned Sand Batteries earlier in this thread When I first saw them described a couple of years ago on the BBC news I though “what a simple idea – surprised no one has done this before” https://www.bbc.co.uk/future/article...m-clean-energy

Then recently this thread popped up A bit of Googling shows these units (now discontinued) have been around in excess of 25 years. They have a central boiler claimed to be 98% efficient, which retains heat long term and distributes this via a heat exchanger through normal c/h radiators.

The boiler has a “Feolite” core which apparently is capable of retaining heat up to 1000⁰C – extremely unlikely in practice, but certainly uses a high core temperature. So similar to the "sand battery" concept

The GEC Nightstor certainly holds some heat - I had a neighbour who had one removed a few years ago. It had been switched off for a week but was still too hot to remove the core.

[geoffers]

@marktom - 👍 : any joy with resolving your E7/ALCS timing problems?