Moving from day + night electricity to a single rate

Sigh... Sounds like a supplier who was too engrossed in using the Landis+Gyr E470 then... Which just so happens to be one of the only options that does not support 5-Terminal setups at all (I am not a fan of L+G for many, many reasons). 5-Terminal SMETS2 Smart Meters first launched around late 2019/early 2020-ish once the first models got approved.

I guess I could drop a few hints as to my alter ego though. If you search for terms like L+G E470 or rts meter sunset on Google... Some rather useful information comes back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theunknowntech

No worries. I primarily help out on the forum of my actual energy supplier, but I also stop by here sometimes. My username here is different from my usual one to help avoid people associating me with the other side, but the moderators from both sides know who I am on the other side.

Yeah, that's true. But there's always the option of either a Meter Exchange if needed, or simply having the meter set to a suitable tariff. Even my Aclara SGM1411-B could be used for day/night tariffs with charging up an EV if I wanted to. Especially since I could just have Economy 7 and have all my night time usage at the cheaper rate. Plus, you can always have either the EV or the EV Charger do the scheduling so that it starts and stops charging at the right times. No need to fiddle with wiring as such that way. I wouldn't recommend a MEX just for EV Charging though if the existing meter is already a Smart Meter. It's just not worth the cost for the use case. It's actually better for both car and charger to not have the meter suddenly shut them down randomly as well.

With a Smart Meter, the Fifth-Terminal is ONLY ever energised when the Night rate is active and is de-energised at all other times. That's useful for Storage Heaters for example, but not the end of the world if you don't have this (you can always use timers on the heaters after all). Other than that, any Smart Meter can simply flip between the two registers since Economy 7 only clocks one of the two registers at any given time for all usage anyway. Mind you, if your meter is around two and a half years old, it's probably S2 but as it'd have been early 2019 there's still a small chance it might be S1. I can verify that if you'd like me to, but I'll need to see photos of your meters.

---

Thank you for confirming and expanding on my more limited understanding. I think they mentioned S2 at the time but may be mistaken. Here are two photos if that helps.Image 2021-07-31 at 16.54.25.jpegAttachment 137

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theunknowntech

Sigh... Sounds like a supplier who was too engrossed in using the Landis+Gyr E470 then... Which just so happens to be one of the only options that does not support 5-Terminal setups at all (I am not a fan of L+G for many, many reasons). 5-Terminal SMETS2 Smart Meters first launched around late 2019/early 2020-ish once the first models got approved.

I guess I could drop a few hints as to my alter ego though. If you search for terms like L+G E470 or rts meter sunset on Google... Some rather useful information comes back.

---

I sense and share some frustration from you. It is disturbing when your energy supplier confidently gives wrong information or contradict themselves. It makes it harder to make informed decisions and can raise suspicions that it is not just incompetence / ignorance but deliberate.

Thanks! Yup, that's my arch nemesis right there - an S2 L+G E470 FOUR-Terminal meter. Because Landis+Gyr is pretty much the only manufacturer who doesn't do 5-Terminal options. That's why there's a separate timeswitch/auxiliary relay type device plumbed in as a bodge to make it behave like a 5-terminal unit. But even then, that can and does cause issues with other suppliers. I've seen people ask about that before over on my home forum. It's also one of the reasons I wrote that huge guide about these meters over there.

The problem isn't the spec. It's the meter manufacturer. If an Aclara SGM1416-B had been fitted, then the meter itself would have handled everything internally, making for a much cleaner and far less hacky installation. On the plus side, at least it's not a Frankenstein I guess...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theunknowntech

Thanks! Yup, that's my arch nemesis right there - an S2 L+G E470 FOUR-Terminal meter. Because Landis+Gyr is pretty much the only manufacturer who doesn't do 5-Terminal options. That's why there's a separate timeswitch/auxiliary relay type device plumbed in as a bodge to make it behave like a 5-terminal unit. But even then, that can and does cause issues with other suppliers. I've seen people ask about that before over on my home forum. It's also one of the reasons I wrote that huge guide about these meters over there.

The problem isn't the spec. It's the meter manufacturer. If an Aclara SGM1416-B had been fitted, then the meter itself would have handled everything internally, making for a much cleaner and far less hacky installation. On the plus side, at least it's not a Frankenstein I guess...

---

Thanks for the explanation. This was fitted by EON who said they had no problem fitting a 5-terminal smart meter! Does this explain why we can't see the night and day usage separately on our display whereas others appear to be able to? So frustrating if this is now limiting our capabilities and our options. At least I think you are saying we have the second generation which should continue to work if we change supplier?